Difference between Brewers friend and Bru'n water

[Dhm8484]

Was messing around with the two. Grain bill:

Maris otter 7.5lbs
Roasted barley 12oz
Chocolate malt 4oz
Gypsum 1.7 grams
Calcium chloride 3.4 grams
Epsom Salt 3.4 grams

5.3 patch in fermenter BIAB no sparge distilled water

Balanced profile of:
Ca 50, Mg 10, Na 16, Ci 70, So4 70

Bru'n water after water additions:
Ca 50, Mg 10, Na 0, Ci 68, So4 70
Estimated Ph was 5.55

Brewers Friend
Ca 42.1, Mg 10.7, Na 0, Co 52.2, So4 72.4
Estimated ph was 5.33

I did not worry about sodium levels.

 

[Dhm8484]

I would like to trust brewers friend since a all in one but I'm leaning towards Bru'n water

 

[bitteritdown]

Those spreadsheet calculators operate off of equations that have been fitted to data points collected from various malt samples. The thing is some of these data points are outliers and don't fit well within the fitted equations, also each malt and worse yet, each batch is different. BruNwater and Brewers Friend most likely have three equations (each calculator has 3 different equations) fitted to samples of base, crystal and roast malts. Try setting a base malt as a roast malt and look at the effect it has on the predicted pH.

Other calculators like "Mash Made Easy" allow you to enter what is known as the DI pH of each malt. The DI pH is the pH of a mash made with distilled water and a small amount of a finely ground malt sample.

There is no spreadsheet or set of equations that can fully and accurately predict mash pH, though most do a good approximation. (Of course these spreadsheets *have* done a great service to the homebrew world.)

Certainly data entry errors, measurement errors, accuracy errors and repeatability errors, etc.. all accumulate and affect the outcome.

The best way to determine mash pH is to conduct a test mash. This is a very small proportinally scaled down mash made of the same malts as the original recipe. From this one can determine what has to be done, if anything, to correct the pH.

These types of spreadsheets are precise, in that they'll return the same values for the same inputs but the accuracy (estimated pH vs. actual pH) will vary from batch to batch.

If you'd like to read more about how the spreadsheets work:

Kai's paper:

http://braukaiser.com/documents/effect_of_water_and_grist_on_mash_pH.pdf

AJ Delanges papers:

http://www.wetnewf.org/untitled.html

 

[bitteritdown]

Bottom line, if everything was entered correctly, either one should get you close to the estimated mash pH. +/- ~10%

 

[Dhm8484]

Okay great info, I understand if a perfect world they all would be the same, I was surprised buy the additions how far off more than the ph, I even match lovibond as brewers friend was off alittle from Bru'n waters

 

[Dhm8484]

Just saw that Brewers Friend has a Grist DI water ph and is at 5.50 which if you go from that it's only off .5 from Bru'n Water

 

[Dhm8484]

Sorry .05