SouthBayBrewer31
SouthBayBrewer31
It’s my first starter and it doesn’t look like much to me. It’s 1 pack WLP001 in a 1500 ML starter, OG 1.034.
Did my starter make enough yeast?
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It’s my first starter and it doesn’t look like much to me. It’s 1 pack WLP001 in a 1500 ML starter, OG 1.034.
What was the package date of the yeast (viability?)? How long did you leave it on the stir plate? I usually give my starters a 1.040 gravity to start with, and keep them at room temp for 48 hours. Also, is this for a 5 gallon batch or something larger? What kind of beer is this going into (wort gravity)?
What is the OG of the beer that will be going into?
Size of the batch it is for?
How long has that starter been going?
Stirplate or shaking?
We need to know at least these things to give a good answer.
Size of the batch it is for?
How long has that starter been going?
Stirplate or shaking?
We need to know at least these things to give a good answer.
OP
OP
SouthBayBrewer31
SouthBayBrewer31
48 hours on a stir plate. Wort OG 1.061. 5 gallon batch.
Comfort_Zone
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You're probably fine. You'd be surprised at how much you can "underpitch" and still get great results. How quickly did it start fermenting though? Ideally you want a gravity drop with little to no fermentation.
OP
OP
SouthBayBrewer31
SouthBayBrewer31
9/24/18
I use this calculator to determine how much yeast to pitch: http://www.yeastcalculator.com/
The amount of yeast looks about right for your starter. The amount looks good using the calculator.
48 hours on a stirplate is not necessary in most cases. 18 - 24 is good. In that time you will have grown enough cells. After that they yeast are mostly done reproducing and then spend energy fermenting the starter. Spending this energy give them less energy to ferment your beer.
The amount of yeast looks about right for your starter. The amount looks good using the calculator.
48 hours on a stirplate is not necessary in most cases. 18 - 24 is good. In that time you will have grown enough cells. After that they yeast are mostly done reproducing and then spend energy fermenting the starter. Spending this energy give them less energy to ferment your beer.
You'll be fine. In all honesty, you shouldn't need a starter at all for that beer. The calculator pitching rates are extremely conservative in their estimates. For any 5 gallon ale 1.060ish or less, with relatively fresh yeast, I just pitch it directly and typically see activity in 12-24 hours.
As a point of reference, I made 6 gallons of 1.054 American wheat beer last weekend using Wyeast 1010. The yeast pack was from mid-August, and I inflated it the weekend before last intending to brew then. I didn't get around to it, so stuck it back in the fridge until this past Sunday. Accepted wisdom is that this yeast was near deaths door and required a double imperial turbo charged mega starter to bring it back to life. Thing is, I pulled it from the fridge and pitched it right into the beer. 24 hours later it was popping away happily.
^That all said^, there can be latent character traits that appear due to underpitching.
In some cases that can be good, others not so much...
Cheers!
In some cases that can be good, others not so much...
Cheers!
That isn't to say that pitching old yeast in small amounts is the right thing to do. If you leave your wort exposed to the air you are likely to get a wild yeast. It will ferment the beer. But?????? I read that early brewers stirred their "wort" with their magic stick which had some yeast cells on it from the last batch.
My personal threshold for not making a starter for liquid yeast is 1.040. Since I have never done one that low when using liquid yeast, I have yet to not make a starter. My average lag time with starters is about 6 hours....
The question is whether what I did was actually underpitching. I've done this quite a few times now, and without any negative characteristics or signs of what might be described as underpitching. I have seen activity in 6 hours as well, but it's usually 12+ hours, which I prefer as the moderate increase in lag time suggests new cell growth.
It's worthy of note that the manufacturer recommends this procedure, unless the yeast is many months old or has been stored improperly.
But cell growth in the wort is what you do not really want. If it is a little, that is OK. If it is a lot that is where off flavors are produced. It is generally accepted that manufacturers do suggest straight pitching - for some reason... It is also generally suggested that for beers that are more than low gravity, you need more yeast than are in the package. Thus the need for a starter. The maximum gravity where a direct pitch is OK is debatable.
I always underpitch except when I overpitch and sometimes, very rarely, when I pitch the correct amount by some strange chance.
Ale just loves being ale.
Lager on the other hand does like a proper dosage I've found. Fussy swine that it is.
Ale just loves being ale.
Lager on the other hand does like a proper dosage I've found. Fussy swine that it is.
A small amount of cell growth is desirable, but I agree not too much. I use the Wyeast activator packs, and their recommendations are available here: https://wyeastlab.com/smack-pack-activator-system
They state that the pack contains a minimum of 100B cells, and only suggest making a starter for high gravity (1.060+) or low temperature situations (lagers). I've taken to following their recommendations and I haven't been let down yet.
The calculator that I use says a 5.25 gallon batch of 1.030 would need 112 billion cells, a 1.050 batch would need 184 billion cells. And that is for a very fresh package.... I rarely brew anything much under 1.050 so I make a starter EVERY time. It works for me. I don't have to worry at all about stressed yeast, stalled fermentations, days of lag time, etc. YMMV.
It's a good idea for 1.060+ strong beers, I agree. A question for the manufacturers is whether this "100B cells" claim is for fresh yeast, or if it's what the pack contains when it reaches you after being used as a football by the postal service and left out baking in the sun for a few days. I suspect it's the latter, as they state 100B as the minimum amount. My observations support this.
Most of my beers are 1.045 - 1.060, but occasionally higher and lower. I used to make starters religiously, and one day decided not to as I didn't have the time to do so ahead of brew day. What surprised me is how fermentation kicked off very fast, sooner than many batches made with starters. It convinced me that when they say activator packs are designed for direct inoculation, they really mean it.
I am not convinced that you get the 100B cells AFTER age, heat, cold etc. Even if that is minimum it is still just over half of what most will say is needed to pitch the proper amount of cells in my average beer. Will it ferment the beer? - yes, no doubt about that. A wort will ferment from yeast cells in the air getting into the wort. Is that the best? Not in my opinion. I prefer to pitch plenty of healthy yeasts to give my beer the best chance of being great. Pitching yeast that might have been badly handled is not my style.
I'm not convinced that most agree the packs offer insufficient cells. It's a common perception on HB forums, but that's it as far as I can tell. I know from repeat trials that direct pitching not only produces beer, it produces great beer. I think that's what it boils down to really... having proof (in the form of empirical evidence) that their recommended procedure works well, and that it's repeatable. If there are claims that it doesn't produce great beer, then that needs to be demonstrated in tests, and then repeated to prove that there's a pattern. If the evidence isn't there, then it's easy to dismiss it (fairly or unfairly) as superstition.
Well I don't have anyone else to get information from that HB forums, books and the internet. And all these sources far more often say that liquid yeast packs should have starters made from them than the very few that say straight pitching is sufficient. There is almost always the mention of "if not more than 1.0xx" These cutoffs vary. You may be OK with pitching just the package. Until I see more suggesting that they are enough I will keep making starters. These days, all of my liquid yeast is from my frozen yeast bank, or I need to add to the bank, so I have to make a starter in any case.
Comfort_Zone
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For what it's worth, one thing I've found as a homebrewer is this: know your yeast. Learn each strain, know how each one likes to be treated and how to get the flavor you want.
