Did I kill my yeast?

[dummkauf]

So I made a brochet(burnt mead) last night, and I let it cool down after adding the water to the pot, but since it was getting late, I pitched 2 packets of montrachet dry yeast into the must and went to bed. The must was at 82F when I pitched, but I was thinking I was OK since that's supposedly good between 59F-86F, plus the back of the package said to rehydrate in water 88F-101F, so I figured I was safe at 82F.

However, it's been about 20 hours since I pitched the yeast, no bubbles, pulled a hydro sample and it's still at the exact OG it was last night before I pitched the yeast. Is it normal for fermentation to take this long to start, the other batch of mead I made yesterday is bubbling away, and I've never seen one where the gravity didn't change by even 1 point like this before. Normally I would just wait, but the higher pitching temp has me a little worried.

Thoughts?

 

[biochemedic]

Not overly familiar with Montrachet strain, but in general, you can sometimes see lag times this long. I'd make some attempts to get some new yeast, and if it doesn't start up in another 18-24 hrs, pitch some new beasties...this time rehydrate them properly, and get them in there. In general, I try to pitch at or even below fermentation temperatures, realizing that once yeast get going, the internal temp of the fermentation chamber will easily get up a few degrees above ambient. I find also that I'm less likely to get huge amounts of blow off if I keep the temps lower.

Oh, and if you didn't add yeast nutrients, do it...

 

[dummkauf]

yes, yeast nutrients were added, I'll give it another day and see what happens. Will probably stop by the brew shop on my way home from work tomorrow and grab a couple extra packets of yeast, just in case.

 

[dummkauf]

Think I definitely killed them, gravity has still not budged so I repitched another packet of montrachet tonight. Temp according to the sample I pulled is 68F so this one should hopefully take.

On the plus side, the must on this burnt mead smells like roasted marshmallows

 

[calicojack]

were you just doing a straight bochet? no other ingredients? nothing with preservatives/sorbate?

 

[dummkauf]

were you just doing a straight bochet? no other ingredients? nothing with preservatives/sorbate?

That is correct. Only things in the bucket are "burnt" honey, water, yeast nutrients, and yeast.

Gravity is at 1.106 and hasn't budged.

Was following this recipe: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f30/bochet-mead-burnt-mead-148209/

Also just realized that it's "bochet" not "brochet"

 

[fatbloke]

If you pitched it dry at 82F, there should be no reason for it to be dead. Though sometimes, it can take a long lag phase.

The rehydrating just gets some moisture into it to help it along and lower temps might, feasibly slow its action some more.

If you're worried then just make a starter and pitch that........

 

[gratus fermentatio]

I'd say it's the fact that you pitched dry yeast directly into a high gravity must. If it takes off at all, it's going to have quite a lag. It's best to rehydrate dry yeast according to instructions on the packet before pitching. With a high OG, you might consider making a yeast starter & pitching that. That way you know the yeast is alive & well, and you're giving it a much better chance to do it's thing well & quickly. Try aerating the heck out of the must, that might help it to take off without repitching.
Regards, GF.

 

[huesmann]

Is 1.106 considered high gravity?

 

[bubbachunk]

Is 1.106 considered high gravity?

Depends I suppose but consider 1.100+ high gravity for wines and ~1.075+ for beers.

I am bit surprised at the extent of your lag phase but I would not worry because a couple days is nothing relative to the amount of time you will be aging that before it is ready to drink.

 

[dummkauf]

Depends I suppose but consider 1.100+ high gravity for wines and ~1.075+ for beers.

I am bit surprised at the extent of your lag phase but I would not worry because a couple days is nothing relative to the amount of time you will be aging that before it is ready to drink.

I'm not worried about aging it, my main concern is around infection if the must is just sitting there not fermenting for an extended period of time.

My 5 gallon batch of JAOM will finally be getting bottled next month after 1 year of aging in the carboy, and will probably sit in bottles for a couple more months before I start drinking. I have learned the lesson of "patience" when it comes to mead after bottling my very first batch too early

 

[dummkauf]

I'd say it's the fact that you pitched dry yeast directly into a high gravity must. If it takes off at all, it's going to have quite a lag. It's best to rehydrate dry yeast according to instructions on the packet before pitching. With a high OG, you might consider making a yeast starter & pitching that. That way you know the yeast is alive & well, and you're giving it a much better chance to do it's thing well & quickly. Try aerating the heck out of the must, that might help it to take off without repitching.
Regards, GF.

That might have been in too, I guess I have no way to prove it, but I've tossed dry yeast into meads with higher gravities in the past which took off just fine. In particular the habanero mead recipe I found on this site I made a 1 gallon batch and I couldn't even get a SG on it because my hydrometer didin't go that high, but that one still took off in less than 48 hours just pitching it in dry.

 

[biochemedic]

On the plus side, the must on this burnt mead smells like roasted marshmallows

That's exactly what mine smelled and tasted like! You're in for a treat...my bochet turned out really nice, is very drinkable only a few months out, and I can't wait to see how it ages!

Is 1.106 considered high gravity?

I don't think of it as terribly high...I've never brewed a mead under 1.100...

 

[dummkauf]

still not starting.....granted that last yeast has only had 24 hours to start, but should I be mixing in some Camden tablets? I usually don't add that until I rack, but it seems like it might not be a bad idea for as long as this batch has been sitting doing nothing.

 

[calicojack]

Repitch. Make a starter. i'd add in some energizer and nutrient to get a yeast bomb and then pitch that.

 

[dummkauf]

Ok, I think I may have finally figured out my issue, maybe.

So far, I have tried pitching just dry yeast, which failed. Next I mixed up a starter using 1/2 cup water, 1/2 cup apple juice and a couple of sprinkles of yeast energizer, and 2 packets of montrachet. I let that get going for about a day, and the yeast were definitely active, and pitched it, and I am still not seeing anything happen. Oh, and I aerated the heck out of it too after I pitched that starter.

I did however pick up a couple of those cheap PH test strips today and tested my must, and it is sitting somewhere between 5.4 - 5.8. Did a little research and found that the PH should be in the 3.6 - 4.7 range However most of what I have found says that a low PH will cause fermentation to slow or stop and I couldn't find anything about a high PH or how to lower it. Could this be the reason this won't start fermenting? Also, if I do get the PH lowered and those yeast wake up, are there any other concerns with how much yeast is in there now?

 

[biochemedic]

Very strange that you're not starting yet, especially since you definitely pitched actie yeast... have you rechecked your gravity at any point?

I've also only ever heard about fermentation problems with low pH...

 

[Insomniac]

Well, getting ph down should be easy, acid ble d would do the trick, though I've never used it. Getting it up is much harder.

 

[fatbloke]

Slightly higher than normal pH reading but that shouldn't be a problem, its still acid.

Don't add campdens once yeast is pitched, it'll stun the yeast increasing any lag phase (mine took 3 weeks when I did that with a wine in error).

Likewise, don't use DAP in a starter, as it can be toxic to the yeast at that stage - its why GoFerm doesn't contain it and is specifically for rehydrating.

I'd just stir the hell out of it and leave it alone (under airlock), for a couple of weeks and it should be fine.

 

[huesmann]

Is there a reason you're fooling around with the yeast? Why not just follow the instructions on the packet, i.e. dissolve in 2 oz of 105-109ºF water, let stand for 15 minutes?

 

[dummkauf]

and the plot thickens....is it possible for a hydrometer to go bad???

My hibiscus mead, which was made on the same day, has been happily fermenting(or so I thought) in the same closet as my bochet. It formed a krausen on top and the airlock was bubbling away, so I hadn't bothered to pull a gravity reading until today. It's been about a week and I just checked it and it only dropped 1 point Every sample I've pulled from the bochet, and now the hibiscus, has read a temp of 66F, with the yeast tolerances listed at 59-80, I don't think that's my issue, but am wondering if it would hurt to bring them upstairs for a bit to see what happens at a slightly warmer temp.

 

[dummkauf]

Is there a reason you're fooling around with the yeast? Why not just follow the instructions on the packet, i.e. dissolve in 2 oz of 105-109ºF water, let stand for 15 minutes?

Because dissolving in water, waiting 15 min, and then pitching doesn't tell me if the yeast are actually alive and doing well. By providing them with something to eat, in this case a little apple juice, I am sure that they are in fact alive and well.

 

[dummkauf]

Well I think I just hit a new record, was going to check my gravity again today, and the middle piece in my 3 piece air lock is finally pressed against the top of the air lock Didn't bother with the gravity reading, which hasn't dropped 1 point in the last 3 weeks, but the fact I'm now seeing airlock activity should hopefully indicate that it's finally taken off. Since this is the first sign of any sort of fermentation I am going to wait a couple more days before pulling another gravity reading.

 

[nukinfuts29]

If this ever happens again i would strongly suggest just putting it under airlock and walking away for 1-2 weeks before messing with it.

 

[dummkauf]

If this ever happens again i would strongly suggest just putting it under airlock and walking away for 1-2 weeks before messing with it.

Yes, in hindsight(which is always 20/20) I realize that now, however since I've yet to ever see a fermentation ever take this long to start going I was freaking out a bit(I know RDWHAHB), though I am now much wiser and will know better in the future.

As confucius says "I must first be young & dumb before I can be old & wise".

 

[dummkauf]

Pulled a sample tonight, it's down to 1.076, so it's definitely fermenting! Added a little yeast nutrient to help keep it going.

This mead was crazy, I've never seen anything take this long to ferment, I whipped up a one gallon test batch tonight of a blackberry mead and I started seeing airlock activity within an hour of pitching the yeast, to think this bochet didn't even drop 1 point for about 4-5 weeks

 

[seanstermatic]

GOOD.

for the record if anyone ever suspects they have a busted hydrometer take the SG of water. it should be 1.000.

PRO TIP. :rockin: