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Did I aerate enough?

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Beau815

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Ok so i did my 1st full boil and i think i finally found the problem that im having. I am not seeing any bubbles after 30 hours. Can you tell me if i aerated enough. I dumped the 70 degree water into the fermenter splashing and causing about 4-5 inches of foam... then I shook it with the cap on but not a ton. Today (day 2) i took the lid off because there were still no bubbles after 24 hours... i know it can be longer but my 1st 7 batches were half boil and the water i added at the end was full of oxygen so its probably why i never had this problem (i will get an 02 tank in the future with an aquarium rock or whatever, ill research more) anyway, i took the top off and stirred vigorously counterclockwise then clockwise for a few minutes, was this a good idea? Do you agree its not oxygenated enough? Should I just ignore it and wait a couple more days?:confused:
 

ArcaneXor

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I think it's too early to worry - fermentation can take two to three days to produce visible signs, and if you ferment in a bucket, airlocks aren't very useful indicators at all (buckets don't usually form a very good seal). You probably didn't do any harm by stirring up your beer, but I generally leave it alone - the yeast can handle lots of abuse and they know what they are doing.

Wait another day - if nothing happens by then, we can help you troubleshoot the issue if you provide us with your recipe, your original gravity reading and yeast type used. If you used dry yeast, did you rehydrate it properly? If you used liquid yeast, did you make a sufficiently large starter for your beer?

Relax, don't worry, and have some homebrew :)
 

HOOTER

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If you used liquid yeast, did you make a sufficiently large starter for your beer?
Bingo. I do full boils with a buddy occasionally and I have yet to see any fermentation issues. If you rehydrate dry yeast or make a starter with liquid yeast your lag time will be reduced significantly. If you pitch a healthy amount of viable yeast cells aeration becomes much less of an issue.
 
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Beau815

Beau815

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i used dry and did not rehydrate... that may be why the lag time... anyhow great news its day 2 and bubbling! I still wonder if i aerated enough... if its bubbling does that mean i did? Or am i still yet to possibly experience the negative effects of not enough aeration?
 

springer

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with dry yeast aeration isn't as important as with liquid. As per Danstar "Nottingham British Ale yeast has been conditioned to survive rehydration. The yeast contains an
adequate reservoir of carbohydrates and unsaturated fatty acids to achieve active growth. It is
unnecessary to aerate wort."
 

Runyanka

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Also, no airlock activity doesnt mean its not fermenting. check the gravity on it.
 

MaynardX

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For my last batch, I didn't see any signs (as far as airlock activity) of fermentation after 24 hours. I was quite upset, at first, because I had made a nice size starter for this batch. Then I lifted up the shirt covering my fermenter to take a peek inside. Particles were churning away like crazy! I noticed my blow off tube was a little heavy for my carboy cap, causing it to lift one side of it. All the pressure was blowing out that side and not through the tube. I then pressed down to seal the carboy cap to the lip of the carboy and started to get bubble action!

It was just another example of "just because you don't see any signs of fermentation, doesn't mean they yeasties aren't working."
 

webnmar

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...anyway, i took the top off and stirred vigorously counterclockwise then clockwise for a few minutes, was this a good idea? ...:
(In my best smart a$$ voice) WHAT, you stirred counter-clockwise while you are in the Northern Hemisphere!! That's way wrong :drunk:

Seriously, You should read Revvy's threads on fermentation taking from 24 to 72 hours. Also, RDWAHAHB!

It is very hard to make this not work. Now that you are bubbling, and presumably have a little foam on top, you should be good to go.

Step away from the beer NOW! leave it alone for 2 weeks, then start considering getting out the hydrometer.

Right when you think you can't wait, get on this forum and ask for advice about whether you should test.

Wait for the advice!!! (VERY IMPORTANT), Then wait alittle more. Your Patience will be rewarded.

Enjoy your new addiction.
 
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Beau815

Beau815

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Thanks! You all were very helpful! It was nottinghams yeast so that's a good thing. Not sure if it was british ale though. It was a orangish-yellow packet. and webnmar lol I said i stirred that way because I was wondering if that "aerates" it. Going one way fast then switching to the other... causing splashing and bubbles... either way im a very happy guy right now hearing it bubbling. I definitely have the patience to wait and i took your advice and put a some double ipa homebrews in the fridge. I just had a good interview and its almost 60 degrees out in NY, AND my brews bubbling... who knew a broke guy could be this happy? haha
 

drayman86

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And shaking the carboy around just doesn't cut it.

Here's what Chris White recommends for wort aeration.

Use an aquarium air pump, and a micron in-line filter for the set-up. Aquarium supply stores also have those thin long rigid plastic tubes that are used in undergravel filter lift tubes. Use a length of this, attached to the hose from the air pump, to get the air to the bottom of the carboy.

Aerate the wort for 30 MINTUES.

Pitch the yeast. Aerate the wort for another 30 MINTUES.

I'm always amazed at how a lot of brewers think unacceptably long lag times (24 hrs. plus) are the norm.

With a really strong starter, I get active fermentation in well aerated wort in less than FIVE HOURS. 17 hours after pitching, my five gallons of oatmeal stout brewed last Friday blew up, out, and all the way through the blow-off tube and into the water lock. :rockin:

Faster starts and better attenuation are the benefits to just slightly more effort.
 

ArcaneXor

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Aquarium pumps aren't any more efficient at getting O2 into solution than shaking the carboy - they just achieve the same job without the physical effort involved (but take a lot longer). They are both limited by the solubility of atmospheric O2 in an aqueous solution at a given temperature - the lower the temperature, the more O2 will make its way into the solution.

The only way to really oversaturate the solution is to use pure O2.
 
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Beau815

Beau815

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I said 30 seconds for PURE O2... i understand its 30 MINUTES x2 for regular air.
 
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I shake my carboy while walking it from the driveway, into the house, down the stairs. never had a batch take longer than 48hours to start.
 
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Beau815

Beau815

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This was indeed my longest starting fermentation and i was just nervous but it did start withing 48 hours, so im happy... its actually bubbling krausen into the s-bubbler....i have a blow off prepped in case.
 

drayman86

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Aquarium pumps aren't any more efficient at getting O2 into solution than shaking the carboy - they just achieve the same job without the physical effort involved (but take a lot longer). They are both limited by the solubility of atmospheric O2 in an aqueous solution at a given temperature - the lower the temperature, the more O2 will make its way into the solution.

The only way to really oversaturate the solution is to use pure O2.
Not trying to start a flame war here, but I'd truly be interested in seeing any trials you've conducted using a dissolved oxygen meter to compare the two methods.

Using the aquarium air pump method for a long enough period of time will achieve a solution saturated with 02, same as using pure 02. The pure 02 method will just get you there quicker.

Can't agree with your statement that shaking is as effective as using an aquarium airpump. Consider these statements from the White Labs website:

"One way to get more oxygen into the fermentor is to use a fish type of aquarium pump. Put an air filter on that you can get at homebrew shops, and turn on for one hour after pitching. Don’t use a stone, it will foam too much, just a small bore tubing, this will add big enough bubbles to mix things up, and you get good oxygen delivery into the wort."

"Most homebrewers add oxygen into wort by shaking the carboy. This can only achieve 10-30% of desired dissolved oxygen levels."

I've noticed my starts are much quicker with a well aerated wort, and I only have to buy the aquarium pump once. 02 tanks need to be replaced.

Just a matter of preference, I suppose......
 

ArcaneXor

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Not trying to start a flame war here, but I'd truly be interested in seeing any trials you've conducted using a dissolved oxygen meter to compare the two methods.
It's simply a matter of physics. I used to do a lot of limnological work, and without something actively pumping O2 into a system, you cannot get much beyond the saturation value.

But don't take my word for it:

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/AerationMethods.pdf
 

drayman86

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It's simply a matter of physics. I used to do a lot of limnological work, and without something actively pumping O2 into a system, you cannot get much beyond the saturation value.

But don't take my word for it:

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/AerationMethods.pdf
Excellent! Interesting study.

I checked out the flow rate of the pump I use, utilizing the method described in the article. My flow rate is just over 5000 ml/minute, over five times what the author was using, so I could get better results than those in the study. I will, though, start to use an airstone, however it may create too much foaming to be of practical use.

There were a couple of criticisms, though. Percent saturation isn't such a great unit of measure to use; quantifying it in terms of total amount (mg/l or some such thing) would a bit more reasonable. It took over a minute to get a dissolved O2 reading. The amount of off-gassing of O2 during that time might be slight, or might not be. As well, water was used instead of wort. Author states something about cost, however it appears he works at a brewery, so this is a bit odd.

Shaking the carboy is effective, but who's gonna shake the bloody thing for the 20 minutes plus it takes to get to the higher O2 levels? :)

Overall a great study! Here's one I found that may be of interest:

http://whitelabs.com/beer/NevaParker.pdf

Not really applicable to us, but drives home the point that good aeration is an essential part of the brewing process.
 
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Beau815

Beau815

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Ok just an update: It was bubbling like mad all day yesterday. I put a blow off tube on it and it continued through the night, the damn thing woke me up with HUGE bursts of bubbles... pressure was backed up behind some suds in the line and when it hit the water BLURP! This is STILL happening, wow im impressed... its my lowest gravity beer yet! Go figure.
 
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