Diacetyl in beers

[user 22118]

So I have made three beers now that have diacetyl (di-as-sit-al) in them. I had a brewer friend taste it and found out how to clear it up. It is funny though, because everyone worries about fermenting too hot that we forget to think about fermenting too cool!

Essentially what he said to me was that get the fermentation going at 65 and then after a couple of days, move it into a 70 degree area in order to make it reabsorb that diacetyl. I never knew this, learn something new everyday.

I don't know if this is common knowledge for beginners or not, but I was happy to find it out. I love buttered popcorn...at the movies, not in my beers. Weird having it in a stout...

 

[Revvy]

You'll find some great info on it here, including some stuff I found a couple weeks back about doing rests for ales too...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/preventing-diacetyl-hold-butter-please-70438/?highlight=Butter

One simple trick for ale brewers is to simply do what many of us already do, leave the beer alone for 3-4 weeks...though the article I posted at the end of the thread also suggests like you said, cooling the beer a few degrees...

 

[PseudoChef]

Gotta watch out for this on English yeasts a lot, it seems. Esp. that bastard, Ringwood. A little on 1968/002 as well.

(Also pronounced, dye-ah-seat-il, btw).

 

[user 22118]

The problem, I think, that I am running into is the fact that I am fermenting around 60* and couldn't get the temp up any higher or lower (without putting the beer outside for the night). So what I think I need to start doing is getting the beer going, two days later bring it to where the temp is about 70* and leave it there for a 5 days, then move it back to the cooler area to clarify. My last beer had some because it was at 60 for a week and then into the keg. Should have warmed it up first or left it an additional week in the primary. I haven't had this problem in the past, but I used old S-04 and apparently it is a known producer of Diacetyl

 

[reim0027]

This may be a noob question, but do you really need to warm the ale up to reduce the diacetyl? Couldn't you primary for a few weeks, and get the same results?

 

[Malticulous]

I drank some of Samuel Smith's beers last month and it give me a new appreciation of diacetyl. I had a noticeable amount in a stout once. It kind of fits with the style but it bugged me. I kept thinking it would go away but it seemed to me the last one had even more than the first. Now I think it would be cool if I could reproduce that same stout.

 

[Yooper]

This may be a noob question, but do you really need to warm the ale up to reduce the diacetyl? Couldn't you primary for a few weeks, and get the same results?

Yes. Almost always, the diacetyl will clear up with time, even without any temperature change. Three to four weeks in the primary usually means that there will be no diacetyl, whether a lager or an ale.

Usually any diacetyl issues will come with a shorter primary, although some strains are noted diacetyl producers more so than others.

 

[Revvy]

This may be a noob question, but do you really need to warm the ale up to reduce the diacetyl? Couldn't you primary for a few weeks, and get the same results?

You want to eliminate Diacetyl normally....and in the case of ales, you cool them, or you leave them alone at fermentation temp, on the yeast (which most of us who long primary do anyway.) You raise the temps of lagers...usually between fermenting and lagering...I've taken to bring my fermenters up from my winter ghetto lager closet up to my apartment for at least 72 hours to bring them into the 60-70's range, then I rack to secondary and then lay them back in the cold to lager.

I drank some of Samuel Smith's beers last month and it give me a new appreciation of diacetyl. I had a noticeable amount in a stout once. It kind of fits with the style but it bugged me. I kept thinking it would go away but it seemed to me the last one had even more than the first. Now I think it would be cool if I could reproduce that same stout.

Do you think the pleasant quality of the diacetyl in the stout and the other Sam Smith beers that you liked were a quality the brewers were shooting for, and was perhaps because of the yeast strain or the fermentation temp, or is it an "accident" (I use the term loosely) but an unintentional result of poor brewing practice or not doing a rest...know what I mean?

Do you think they wanted a certain level of diacetyl in the beer or it's there and you happen to like it. I know certain strains of yeast are more prone to producing it (actually my understanding is it's not the some yeast produce more, just that some yeast strains are less likely to eat it up during the diacetyl rest.)

It would be something to consider if you wanted to come up with a similar recipe...

One of the Sportsbars in town serves cheap killian's on draft, and I notice that it has a hint of diacetyl in there, and it is actually pleasant. It's also one of the few bars in Michigan that I have had Killian's at where it doesn't taste like it is one step away from turning to vinegar because of acetobactor and poor line cleaning...