Day 4: No Fermentation. I think I killed my yeast.

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chexjc

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Hey Guys,

So this is a first for me. I made Edwort's Haus Pale Ale and pitched Safale US-05 on Sunday. I checked my gravity today and it hasn't budged at all.

I think I know where I went wrong. I normally rehydrate US-05 about halfway through the boil so it is ready to go right after chilling, but I forgot to do it until I had about 15 minutes left in the boil. At this point, things got a little hectic with hop additions and I think I accidentally killed the yeast.

I poured a cup of bottled water into a sanitized measuring glass and tossed it in the microwave to warm it up into the 90-105F temperature range. Under the time constraint, I think I took too brief of a temperature reading and didn't allow my thermometer to read correctly. I'm guessing the water was hot enough to kill the yeast.

Anyway, the hydrometer sample still tasted delicious, so I ran to the store and bought two packets of US-05, which I poured directly into the carboy. Do you think my beer will be alright? It was sitting at a temperature-controlled 68F and the OG is 1.050.

What negative side effects might I see from the four days of nothingness, assuming it isn't infected?
 

day_trippr

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[...]Anyway, the hydrometer sample still tasted delicious, so I ran to the store and bought two packets of US-05, which I poured directly into the carboy. Do you think my beer will be alright? It was sitting at a temperature-controlled 68F and the OG is 1.050.

What negative side effects might I see from the four days of nothingness, assuming it isn't infected?
With that assumption, there nothing to cause negative side effects.
It's wort. Under temperature control. That tastes good.

Assuming a five gallon batch at that gravity the two packets of US-05 is a bit of an overpitch.
Then again, only half of the yeast will probably survive the dry pitch, so you should be good...

Cheers!
 
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chexjc

chexjc

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With that assumption, there nothing to cause negative side effects.
It's wort. Under temperature control. That tastes good.

Assuming a five gallon batch at that gravity the two packets of US-05 is a bit of an overpitch.
Then again, only half of the yeast will probably survive the dry pitch, so you should be good...

Cheers!
Thanks day_trippr! That's what I was thinking -- two packs, half die = one pack. Normally I rehydrate but I was in a bit of a hurry.

I'm glad to know there are no negative effects (again assuming it is not infected) and sort of impressed with my sanitation haha.
 

Zepth

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Get the yeast in there. I've seen unfermented wort grow mold at 33F ( I was amazed, but life finds a way). Once the alcohol is in the mix, microbes have a very tough time of it.
For reference point what was the time frame on this?
 
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For reference point what was the time frame on this?
At least a month. There was literally ice present in the liquid, but nonetheless a mold grew on it's surface. I think the mold was one I use in cheesemaking (P. camemberti), but in this case I had sprayed it on some meat (pepperoni) I had been fermenting, and ultimately this mold made its way into the wort.
 
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chexjc

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At least a month. There was literally ice present in the liquid, but nonetheless a mold grew on it's surface. I think the mold was one I use in cheesemaking (P. camemberti), but in this case I had sprayed it on some meat (pepperoni) I had been fermenting, and ultimately this mold made its way into the wort.
Interesting, thanks for sharing. I pitched the two packets of US-05 at about 8pm last night. I will go check on things today to see what's happening. The wort looked fine. What I initially suspected was a krausen ring was just floating hop matter. I don't get much opportunity to check on things because I brew about twenty minutes away from my apartment at my parent's lake house. I'm still pretty optimistic because the sample I took was about the tastiest hydrometer sample I've ever had haha.
 
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Interesting, thanks for sharing. I pitched the two packets of US-05 at about 8pm last night. I will go check on things today to see what's happening. The wort looked fine. What I initially suspected was a krausen ring was just floating hop matter. I don't get much opportunity to check on things because I brew about twenty minutes away from my apartment at my parent's lake house. I'm still pretty optimistic because the sample I took was about the tastiest hydrometer sample I've ever had haha.
Sorry, I shouldn't have alarmed you, the chance you'll have a problem is very small. My point, which went astray for sure, was that if your fermentation doesn't start in 3 days, just pitch more yeast. It's easy to keep extra dry yeast packets around for this purpose.
 
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chexjc

chexjc

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Sorry, I shouldn't have alarmed you, the chance you'll have a problem is very small. My point, which went astray for sure, was that if your fermentation doesn't start in 3 days, just pitch more yeast. It's easy to keep extra dry yeast packets around for this purpose.
No apology necessary! :) I think I will start keeping some extra dry yeast around. This is batch ~12 for me and the first time I've had any sort of yeast problem.
 
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chexjc

chexjc

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I'm probably reading too far into this but...is there any risk of botulism in unfermented wort that sat at 68F for four days? :cross:
 

m00ps

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At least a month. There was literally ice present in the liquid, but nonetheless a mold grew on it's surface. I think the mold was one I use in cheesemaking (P. camemberti), but in this case I had sprayed it on some meat (pepperoni) I had been fermenting, and ultimately this mold made its way into the wort.
Any chance I can get some of that? I want to use it in a saison. The mold AND the pepperoni I mean
 
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I'm probably reading too far into this but...is there any risk of botulism in unfermented wort that sat at 68F for four days? :cross:
Nope. The spores that create the botulism toxin, botulinim clostridium, do so only when no oxygen is present. Your unfermented wort should be rich with O2.

And yes, you're worrying too much now :)
 
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chexjc

chexjc

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Nope. The spores that create the botulism toxin, botulinim clostridium, do so only when no oxygen is present. Your unfermented wort should be rich with O2.

And yes, you're worrying too much now :)
:) I assumed as much. I had to ask! Thanks.
 
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Any chance I can get some of that? I want to use it in a saison. The mold AND the pepperoni I mean

:off:

All cleaned up, sorry. As a cheese culture, it prefers lactose to maltose (I'd guess, not really sure). I mix it with water in a spray bottle and spray fermenting meat to keep other nastier molds from developing on them while they are aging. Regarding the pepperoni, some of it's going on pizza this wkend :)

In pic below, pepperoni (white mold not evident yet, but eventually they would have a patina of white on them). Also, blue cheese fermenting in containers, and beer. Pretty chaotic fermentation activity in there.

 

SunnyDownSnuff

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I'm probably reading too far into this but...is there any risk of botulism in unfermented wort that sat at 68F for four days? :cross:
If there was any yeast activity at all, I wouldn't be concerned, I would just pitch a bit more as previous posters stated.

There is good information here

http://beerandwinejournal.com/botulism/

and here

http://beerandwinejournal.com/q-a-botulism/

If you have any doubts at all you could reheat your wort to 185 F for five minutes, then cool it quickly, then pitch.

Four days, absolutely no activity?...if disolved oxygen below 2%, pH above 4.5, sugar below the level that the toxins can form...personally I would re-heat just to be on the safe side if definitely no activity.
 
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chexjc

chexjc

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If there was any yeast activity at all, I wouldn't be concerned, I would just pitch a bit more as previous posters stated.

There is good information here

http://beerandwinejournal.com/botulism/

and here

http://beerandwinejournal.com/q-a-botulism/

If you have any doubts at all you could reheat your wort to 185 F for five minutes, then cool it quickly, then pitch.

Four days, absolutely no activity?...if disolved oxygen below 2%, pH above 4.5, sugar below the level that the toxins can form...personally I would re-heat just to be on the safe side if definitely no activity.
It's hard for me to say if there was any yeast activity because I topped off with some water to hit my target gravity when I had greater mash efficiency and boil off than expected. So I can't really be 100% certain about what my OG was. It seemed like nothing had happened, though.

To oxygenate, I shook the carboy around on the floor like a crazy person for ~3 minutes as I normally do. I don't have a pH meter, so that's left in the air. I pitched the two packets as soon as i could last night and I just got back from checking on things. It's bubbling away happily now with a couple inches of krausen.

Anyway, now I'm back to being super paranoid again. I've also been told that iso-alpha acids are inhibitive of the botulism spores, even in quantities way smaller than they're present in wort. Is there any other way for me to know that the beer is safe to drink other than drinking it?
 

ChelisHubby

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The hops and the alcohol pretty much stop anything harmful. I supposed you could get it tested but it would just be money spent for a one in a billion chance of a unusual germ that has not been seen before. Me I would bottle it and open a cold one 2 weeks later.:)
 

Aristotelian

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:off:

All cleaned up, sorry. As a cheese culture, it prefers lactose to maltose (I'd guess, not really sure). I mix it with water in a spray bottle and spray fermenting meat to keep other nastier molds from developing on them while they are aging. Regarding the pepperoni, some of it's going on pizza this wkend :)

In pic below, pepperoni (white mold not evident yet, but eventually they would have a patina of white on them). Also, blue cheese fermenting in containers, and beer. Pretty chaotic fermentation activity in there.

Best thread hijack ever :rockin:
 
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chexjc

chexjc

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The hops and the alcohol pretty much stop anything harmful. I supposed you could get it tested but it would just be money spent for a one in a billion chance of a unusual germ that has not been seen before. Me I would bottle it and open a cold one 2 weeks later.:)
That makes me feel better. I guess the thing I keep forgetting is that I've already taken a drink from the sample. According to the aforementioned articles, if I have botulism in 36 hours time, then that was a very bad idea.
 

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