Dark malts in IPA for colour adjustment

[Alf34]

Hi brewers

I was watching one of the last youtube videos from the appartment brewer where he talks about tips for brewing modern West coast IPAs.

He mentions the use of chocolate malt or midnight wheat for example to get a darker colour without using too much caramel malts.

I have always been a fan of classic orangey West coast ipas. To get that colour im currently using 85% pale + 10% Munich + 5% crystal 20. That gets me to around 6 SRM.

I want something darker, so I thought about using 1% max of something like Special carafa II, since the dehusked version is less likely to give any noticeable aroma or flavour contribution, or that is what I am asuming and hoping at least.

What are your thoughts on that? Have you tried that aproach with success in a hoppy beer?

Thanks!

 

[mschoeffler]

Darker munich or Red X

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I thought about using 1% max of something like Special carafa II, since the dehusked version is less likely to give any noticeable aroma or flavour contribution, or that is what I am asuming and hoping at least.

What are your thoughts on that? Have you tried that aproach with success in a hoppy beer?

For Red IPAs, I take that approach using Briess Midnight Wheat. Weyermann® CARAFA® Special Type 2 product information looks similar, but I haven't used it.

For Amber Ales & Imperial Amber Ales, I will use Chocolate (350L), Light Chocolate (200L), or Simpsons DRC for color (and additional flavors). I have some Briess Crystal Red™ (200L), but I have not brewed with it yet.

 

[sibelman]

@Alf34 , fwiw I like more malt forward IPA, and use ~7% 60L crystal, producing a rather red IPA.

I agree with others that a wee bit of much darker malt e.g. Midnight Wheat or Carafa II would give you some color without pushing the flavor toward caramel.

 

[MaxStout]

I'm with the others above. About 1% de-husked Carafa II or III, or midnight wheat should get you the orange color you want, without altering the flavor much.

 

[worlddivides]

@Alf34 , fwiw I like more malt forward IPA, and use ~7% 60L crystal, producing a rather red IPA.

I agree with others that a wee bit of much darker malt e.g. Midnight Wheat or Carafa II would give you some color without pushing the flavor toward caramel.

I'm also a massive fan of maltier IPAs, whether West Coast or English or whatever, and often add anywhere from 4% to 8% crystal malt to them (usually 60L, though I've used 20L and 40L too). I've also added amber malt to IPAs before with a rather nice flavor addition. As for the real dark stuff, I've added debittered dark barley to an IPA once or twice, but never regular roasted barley or chocolate malt. Assuming it's in small enough of a percentage, it could work quite nicely, though I personally wouldn't really use anything that would add astringency to the beer.

 

[Erik the Anglophile]

I regularly use chocolate or black malt for color adjustment, usually between 0.5-1.5g per liter of post boil batch size.
I mash out and sparge in a combined step and just add the dark grains with the sparge water.

 

[Robin Edwin]

I think your idea of using 1% Special Carafa II is solid. The dehusked version should add the darker color you’re after without impacting the flavor much.

I’ve used about 1% Carafa Special III before for a similar purpose and it worked well just a nice color boost without roastiness. Midnight Wheat is another good option for subtle color adjustments.

Let us know how it turns out!

 

[micraftbeer]

I use Red-X to get the orange color without the caramel flavor. I'll use it in beers where I want some caramel malt flavor contribution, but don't want to be overwhelmed. My palate has been mentally scarred from overdoing the caramel malts, so I'll add what I think I can tolerate from the make flavor, them add Red-X to get it the rest of the way there.

For example in an IPA where I mainly want the color, not much caramel flavor, it will be maybe 8-10% of the grain bill, caramel malts maybe 5-10%, and the rest pale malt.

For me, I'd be worried that to get the orange color I'm after, the dark malt flavor would peek through. But I've been afraid of it, so can't say I've ever tried it!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

For me, I'd be worried that to get the orange color I'm after, the dark malt flavor would peek through. But I've been afraid of it, so can't say I've ever tried it!

When I use di-bittered black malt for minor color adjustments (up to about 4 SRM so about 1% black malt), I don't taste the black malt.

 

[duelerx]

Just use Sinamar

 

[Halfakneecap]

I have sinamar, its good for light colour adjustments. Pretty handy stuff to have

 

[SpeedYellow]

Do NOT use Carafa II (or III) for this. Even at just 1% of grist, Carafa II imparts a distinct roast flavor. BTDT and dumped the batch over it. That roastiness will also REALLY clash with hops, which would be a big problem for you here.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

There are Carafa 1, 2, & 3 malts and Carafa Special (debittered) 1, 2, & 3 malts: Malts - Weyermann® (link):

The page for each malt includes a downloads section (bottom right side of the page). Also note the "left/right" navigation buttons to navigate between malts without going to the products page.

 

[duelerx]

I have sinamar, its good for light colour adjustments. Pretty handy stuff to have

I agree that it is a very underrated ingredient.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

There are Carafa 1, 2, & 3 malts and Carafa Special (debittered) 1, 2, & 3 malts: Malts - Weyermann® (link):

View attachment 864410​

The page for each malt includes a downloads section (bottom right side of the page). Also note the "left/right" navigation buttons to navigate between malts without going to the products page.

Ugh, Weyermann's naming for these malts is lousy! So many recipes I've seen posted around the internet seem to conflate "type 2" with being the "dehusked", and so there's inevitably follow-up comments asking which actual malt was used.

 

[Halfakneecap]

Is there really that much difference between either?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Is there really that much difference between either?

The Weyermann has the information for you to make that decision:

• "CaraFa Special" is dehusked. CaraFa is not.
• Type 1 / 2 / 3 have different Lovibond ranges.
• There is a 'malt flavor wheel' for each malt on each of the product pages. Or, ...
• ... on the malt 'landing page', there is a download section has a PDF with flavor wheels for all the malts.

 

[Halfakneecap]

The Weyermann has the information for you to make that decision:

• "CaraFa Special" is dehusked. CaraFa is not.
• Type 1 / 2 / 3 have different Lovibond ranges.
• There is a 'malt flavor wheel' for each malt on each of the product pages. Or, ...
• ... on the malt 'landing page', there is a download section has a PDF with flavor wheels for all the malts.

Yes, i read it, same Lovibond, just one dehusked and one not.

Ive used both, and never really been able to tell when i use one vs the other when used as a small percentage of the grain bill.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I'm currently looking at a recipe for an "Imperial Red" (BYO' Big Book of Clone Recipes) that lists Caramunich III (sigh).

Ugh, Weyermann's naming for these malts is lousy!

Ugh indeed. "Munich malt" is another area where I appreciate specific brand / product names. There's Munich 1 / 2 and CaraMunich 1 / 2 / 3. Plus all the other brands of Munich malt as well as variety range of crystal / caramel malts with Munich in the product name.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

I've used Caramunich 50L once, and I think I found it tasted almost exactly like Briess Caramel 60L, at around 10% of the grist. Not sure if it was Weyermann or Swaen, in any case, it was a pre-packaged 1 lb bag by LD Carlson. At least now I know what I'm actually looking for when I ask for "a pound of munich".

Also, I now avoid HBS's that sell LD Carlson pre-packaged grain bags, unless they sell 50 lb sacks of 2-row for cheaper than I can get shipped.

 

[Bobby_M]

I've used Caramunich 50L once, and I think I found it tasted almost exactly like Briess Caramel 60L, at around 10% of the grist. Not sure if it was Weyermann or Swaen, in any case, it was a pre-packaged 1 lb bag by LD Carlson. At least now I know what I'm actually looking for when I ask for "a pound of munich".

Also, I now avoid HBS's that sell LD Carlson pre-packaged grain bags, unless they sell 50 lb sacks of 2-row for cheaper than I can get shipped.

I'm not following what you're saying. Caramunich III is 60L Weyermann crystal malt so it would taste pretty close to any other maltster's 60L crystal malt whether it be Briess, Simpsons, Crisp, etc.

Munich is a completely different thing, being a base malt and not a crystal/caramel malt.

If you're saying it's confusing, I suppose it is but with Weyermann malts almost anything named "cara....." is a caramel malt. Carafoam, carahell, caraveinne, caramunich, caraaroma. All crystal. It's kind of the same with Briess and their Carapils. Hopfully one wouldn't mistakenly order 10 pounds of carapils thinking it was pilsner malt.

What is the problem with LD repacks specifically?

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

What is the problem with LD repacks specifically?

Nothing specifically wrong with the LD Carlson packs, my meaning was that if a HBS only sells pre-filled 1 lb bags, it's probably a pretty crappy HBS (staffed by people who will hand a bag of caramunich to someone who asks for munich -- I fully admit my own ignorance at the time).