Danstar bry-97 not fermenting

[urg8rb8]

Its been about 72 hours since I pitched the yeast and there has been no activity whatsoever. I took the lid off the fermentation bucket and there is no krausen.

I rehydrated the yeast but did not proof it (Danstar doesn't recommend it). However, It seems like the yeast woke up during the rehydration process because it became somewhat creamy but there was no froth.

Should I get another yeast packet and pitch it? Should I vigorously stir the wort? I'm just wondering if the yeast is dead or if they need to be woken up. I've also kept bucket at around 70F.

I haven't checked the specific gravity yet.

Thanks!

 

[agrazela]

Typically takes 3 to 4 days for that yeast to show activity for me.

Batch volume, OG, and how much did you pitch? And how old was your yeast?

 

[urg8rb8]

Typically takes 3 to 4 days for that yeast to show activity for me.

Batch volume, OG, and how much did you pitch? And how old was your yeast?

I'm fermenting 5 gallons with an OG of 1.051. I pitched one yeast packet that I bought in January.

 

[816North]

I'm fermenting 5 gallons with an OG of 1.051. I pitched one yeast packet that I bought in January.

They recommend 1g yeast per liter of wort. So you have 18.5L of wort but pitched 11g of yeast. Dry yeast is deceptive. It seems like one packet is sufficient. But it isn't. Much like one smack pack or one allegedly pitchable tube of white labs is enough. Almost never.

 

[BigFloyd]

One 11g packet of decently fresh and not mishandled dry yeast has about 220 billion cells. If you rehydrate properly and preserve that cell count, one 11g packet is a sufficient pitch in a 5 gallon ale up to 1.060.

Some folks report an extended (36hr) lag with BRY-97. Mine has been active within 12-16 hours at 63-64*F.

What was the temp of your rehydration water?

 

[816North]

One 11g packet of decently fresh and not mishandled dry yeast has about 220 billion cells. If you rehydrate properly and preserve that cell count, one 11g packet is a sufficient pitch in a 5 gallon ale up to 1.060.

Some folks report an extended (36hr) lag with BRY-97. Mine has been active within 12-16 hours at 63-64*F.

What was the temp of your rehydration water?

This is not what's written on the packet itself. First, there's no specific cell count published by Danstar. Nobody agrees on how many cells are actually in a packet. Second, the actual Danstar catalog for this yeast says the following: "The recommended pitching rate is 50–100g/hL to achieve up to 2.5 to 5 million live cells per mL." This is equivalent to 1g per liter. Third, because there's no indication on the packet, it's impossible to tell if a yeast has had ideal or poor storage conditions. So assuming the best is likely to lead to the worst.

I had issues with this yeast and contacted them directly. They specifically said that 1 packet of yeast in 5 gallons of 1.060 wort was significantly underpitching, hence the long lag time.

 

[Coff]

I used this strain twice, huge lag times even on pitch #2 using fresh slurry at a proper pitching rate. IMO, this strain is not work the hassle, I didn't seem to get anything out of it that made the lag time worth it.

It will get going but the lag is common with this strain.

 

[urg8rb8]

One 11g packet of decently fresh and not mishandled dry yeast has about 220 billion cells. If you rehydrate properly and preserve that cell count, one 11g packet is a sufficient pitch in a 5 gallon ale up to 1.060.

Some folks report an extended (36hr) lag with BRY-97. Mine has been active within 12-16 hours at 63-64*F.

What was the temp of your rehydration water?

I rehydrated at like 90F.

so I wanted to give an update on this. I took a gravity reading two days ago and it was still at 1.051... so this confirms that there is no activity in that bucket. I then took my long, sanitized ladle and mixed the heck out of the wort and quickly put the lid back on. Yesterday I lightly pushed on the bucket lid to get a whiff (through the airlock) of what's in the bucket and I smelled a sweet, light alcoholic odor. This morning I did the same smell test and I still smelled the sweetness but there was this other strange sulfur odor. I remember the rehydrated yeast also had this sulfur odor. So something tells me that maybe the fermentation process has started. I will do another gravity reading in a few days to see where it's at. Is this yeast known to have a sulfur odor to it?

 

[BigFloyd]

This is not what's written on the packet itself. First, there's no specific cell count published by Danstar. Nobody agrees on how many cells are actually in a packet. Second, the actual Danstar catalog for this yeast says the following: "The recommended pitching rate is 50–100g/hL to achieve up to 2.5 to 5 million live cells per mL." This is equivalent to 1g per liter. Third, because there's no indication on the packet, it's impossible to tell if a yeast has had ideal or poor storage conditions. So assuming the best is likely to lead to the worst.

I had issues with this yeast and contacted them directly. They specifically said that 1 packet of yeast in 5 gallons of 1.060 wort was significantly underpitching, hence the long lag time.

From http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php -

Some exciting work has been done on dry yeast lately. Reports are coming in of better quality, cleaner dry yeast. Personally, I really prefer the liquid yeasts, but the lure of dry yeast is strong. The biggest benefit is that it is cheap and does not require a starter. In fact, with most dry yeasts, placing them in a starter would just deplete the reserves that the yeast manufacturer worked so hard to build into the yeast. Most dry yeast has an average cell density of 20 billion cells per gram. You would need about 9.5 grams of dry yeast if you were pitching into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts. (Recently there have been other numbers mentioned for cells/gram of dry yeast and folks have asked me why I believe there are 20 billion cells. I've actually done cell counts on dry yeast and they're always 20 billion per gram +/- less than a billion. Dr. Clayton Cone has also stated that there are 20 billion per gram, and other folks I trust tell me that 20 billion is correct. Until I see something different, practical experience tells me this number is correct.) For dry yeasts, just do a proper rehydration in tap water, do not do a starter.

The dry yeast producers' "guaranteed" # of cells/gram and what cell counts on properly rehydrated yeast show are quite different. I use dry yeast (rehydrated in 100*F tap water and attemperated before pitching) pretty often for certain styles and spur-of-the-moment batches. I've observed no signs of underpitching using one 11g packet in 5 gallon 1.050 to 1.060 ales.

Btw, is it normal for this dry yeast to smell differently than other typical dry yeasts?

No. It's essentially a dry yeast version of West Coast Ale, very similar to 1056.

 

[urg8rb8]

Update: There is now activity in the airlock! So for sure something is going on in the bucket! And the smell of sulfur is less pronounced. I'll do another gravity reading in a few days. Fermenting wort is chilled at 62-64F.

So I'm guessing the vigorous stirring I did made it go. If that is the case, why so?

 

[Puddlethumper]

I've used BRY-97 in a number of batches of cream ales and AA's and found it to be a very dependable strain. Fermentation always develops slower than with other strains and there is virtually never a need for a blow-off tube with this yeast. Regardless of expert's cell counts I choose to pitch 2 packets when the OG is over 1.055.

My take on this strain is that it is an extremely reliable yeast that attenuates well but without any fanfare. It works best at 65-68F. Pitch the proper amount and hold appropriate temperatures and don't sweat a lack of a huge rolling fermentation or activity in the airlock. It will work just fine. Your hydrometer and taste buds will tell you it did exactly what it was supposed to do.

 

[urg8rb8]

Update 2: I just took a gravity reading and I'm now getting 1.021. There is also no sulfur smell at all. I tasted the beer that I used for the gravity reading and it tastes really good. However, I was expecting the final gravity to be around 1.012. Do you think the gravity reading will change while its conditioning?

General question, what temperatures do you usually keep the beer at while its conditioning? Do you keep at the fermentation temp the entire 2 or 3 weeks? Or do you just leave it at room temperatures during the conditioning phase?

 

[BigFloyd]

Do you think the gravity reading will change while its conditioning?

No. If you want it to have a chance to get to a lower FG, you need to leave it on the yeast longer. How long has this been fermenting?

Warming it up to about 70*F would be helpful at this point in the process. You may even want to very gently (no splashing) work the yeast up off the bottom with a sanitized spoon then give it another week.

Are you checking FG with a hydrometer or a refractometer? The refract will read artificially high if alcohol is present.

General question, what temperatures do you usually keep the beer at while its conditioning? Do you keep at the fermentation temp the entire 2 or 3 weeks? Or do you just leave it at room temperatures during the conditioning phase?

If you're talking about bottle conditioning, 3 weeks at 70-75*F works well for most brews.

 

[urg8rb8]

No. If you want it to have a chance to get to a lower FG, you need to leave it on the yeast longer. How long has this been fermenting?

Been fermenting for about 2 days now.

Warming it up to about 70*F would be helpful at this point in the process. You may even want to very gently (no splashing) work the yeast up off the bottom with a sanitized spoon then give it another week.

Sure, i'll do that either tomorrow or Saturday. You don't think its necessary to keep the beer at mid 60F anymore? Danstar says to keep it between 60 and 70F.

Are you checking FG with a hydrometer or a refractometer? The refract will read artificially high if alcohol is present.

I'm using a hydrometer.

If you're talking about bottle conditioning, 3 weeks at 70-75*F works well for most brews.

I won't be bottle conditioning since I will be using a keg. I meant conditioning in the bucket (I may be using the term "conditioning" incorrectly here... maybe the term I'm looking for is "cleaning up") by keeping the beer in there for a total of 2 weeks. I'm just wondering if its a good idea to store the beer in the bucket at slightly higher temperatures once it gets to its expected final gravity? After taking the lid off, it seems like the fermentation is done because the krausen is gone (looks like it was 1.5 inches high from the looks of the walls of the bucket).

Sorry for all these "elementary" questions... I'm learning as I go.

 

[BigFloyd]

Forget what I said about warming to 70 for now. Keep it around 63-64 for at least another few days. I thought you had this farther along.

Let it sit at least another 8-10 days before checking gravity again.

 

[urg8rb8]

Forget what I said about warming to 70 for now. Keep it around 63-64 for at least another few days. I thought you had this farther along.

Let it sit at least another 8-10 days before checking gravity again.

Thanks! I'll report what happens in a week or so.

 

[urg8rb8]

I just kegged the beer. I let the beer sit in the primary for two weeks after the yeast woke up. I set the CO2 pressure for 2.4 volumes for the Summer Wheat Ale.

 

[urg8rb8]

Forget what I said about warming to 70 for now. Keep it around 63-64 for at least another few days. I thought you had this farther along.

Let it sit at least another 8-10 days before checking gravity again.

My final gravity was at 1.018 where I was expecting 1.012. Do you think that is close enough or would you think that is a "stuck" fermentation? Do you think that is a very noticeable difference in sweetness on the taste buds?

 

[agrazela]

Sounds to me like it wasn't done, and yes I'd expect a sweetness difference if you expected FG 1.012 but are at 1.018.

Was this all-grain or partial mash (and at what mash temp) or extract or what? Any adjuncts?

 

[urg8rb8]

Sounds to me like it wasn't done, and yes I'd expect a sweetness difference if you expected FG 1.012 but are at 1.018.

Was this all-grain or partial mash (and at what mash temp) or extract or what? Any adjuncts?

It was an extract that used a bag of grains. Would it be a huge difference in sweetness? I'm not bottling so Im not worried about bottles exploding.

 

[urg8rb8]

Do you think it would help if i throw a new packet of yeast in the keg?

 

[agrazela]

I have no kegging experience so I can't advise you on that.

 

[816North]

Do you think it would help if i throw a new packet of yeast in the keg?

In all the worry about the actual numbers, you missed the important thing: does it taste good? Your mouth doesn't decide what tastes good based on a hydrometer reading.

At this point, since it's been carbed and kegged and chilled, you don't have many options. You can throw more good money after bad, or you can leave it and try again on another batch. Not every beer turns out fantastic. If you want to make good beer, you're going to dump a lot of bad beer. That's the nature of the beast.

 

[urg8rb8]

In all the worry about the actual numbers, you missed the important thing: does it taste good? Your mouth doesn't decide what tastes good based on a hydrometer reading.

At this point, since it's been carbed and kegged and chilled, you don't have many options. You can throw more good money after bad, or you can leave it and try again on another batch. Not every beer turns out fantastic. If you want to make good beer, you're going to dump a lot of bad beer. That's the nature of the beast.

You make a very good point. I think the beer tastes good and I will enjoy it a lot when it is done carbing. What has me thinking the most is trying to maximize potential of the beer.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Do you think it would help if i throw a new packet of yeast in the keg?

+1 to leave it and drink it if it tastes good.

Adding more yeast once its in the keg won't help unless you keep it out of the kegerator where it could stay at ferment temps. Then what do you do about an airlock? Drink it and start on another batch.

 

[urg8rb8]

+1 to leave it and drink it if it tastes good.

Adding more yeast once its in the keg won't help unless you keep it out of the kegerator where it could stay at ferment temps. Then what do you do about an airlock? Drink it and start on another batch.

Good points! I took a sip of the beer from the keg (in the process of carbing) and the sweetness isn't high... it tastes really good actually!

 

[Puddlethumper]

Sounds like success to me! Time to fire up the burner and get another batch going.