Damn!! Added hops to Gose

[Rob2010SS]

As the title says, I'm in the middle of a brew and added 15 IBUs to what was going to be a gose. I had a brain fart....

I have 4 packs of Omega Lacto that states it's hop intolerant at even 2 IBU. Is it worth pitching all 4 packs into this 18 gallon batch to see if it does anything?

I am going to make a run and get some Philly Sour which I hear is hop tolerant but wondering if the OYL-605 will even do anything...

HELP!!!!

 

[TenaCJed]

If you can get your hands on some Jolly Pumpkin bottles, I have heard that their yeast strain is very hop tolerant. However if it is, might take you more sour than intended for a Gose.

Just going to have to do a couple of yeast build up starters before you can pitch though.

 

[Rob2010SS]

If you can get your hands on some Jolly Pumpkin bottles, I have heard that their yeast strain is very hop tolerant. However if it is, might take you more sour than intended for a Gose.

Just going to have to do a couple of yeast build up starters before you can pitch though.

Unfortunately, I don't get those by me. At least not that I have seen... I'm literally chilling this batch as we speak so no time for a starter.

My LHBS has 3 packs of philly sour so I'm going to grab those and pitch the lacto and hope it gets down to the sourness I want.

Unless someone tells me that pitching Philly Sour and a couple packs of Omega OYL 605 is a bad idea...

 

[Jag75]

I've never tried but all I know is hops stop the souring process . It sucks you have 18 gallons of beer that you just don't know how it will turn out .

If I'm in your shoes I just turn it into a different beer and start over . However it depends on your situation as well. Maybe @RPh_Guy will be able to give advice on this. Sorry man

Edit: missed where you said your chilling. Just roll with it and let us know how it turns out .

 

[Rob2010SS]

I've never tried but all I know is hops stop the souring process . It sucks you have 18 gallons of beer that you just don't know how it will turn out .

If I'm in your shoes I just turn it into a different beer and start over . However it depends on your situation as well. Maybe @RPh_Guy will be able to give advice on this. Sorry man

No worries. Appreciate the info.

This was going to be a salted lime gose. It's chilling and already has the coriander, salt and hops. Just hoping I can get something that will sour it. Even if it's not to our standard 3.2 pH, I think I can still get something close to what we wanted....

 

[Jag75]

No worries. Appreciate the info.

This was going to be a salted lime gose. It's chilling and already has the coriander, salt and hops. Just hoping I can get something that will sour it. Even if it's not to our standard 3.2 pH, I think I can still get something close to what we wanted....

Could you add lactic acid to it ?

 

[Jag75]

Who knows , it may turn out great . Kinda like Fall of Troy from Bealching Beaver . Troy the brewer messed up , hence the name Fall of Troy. That beer ended up amazing.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Could you add lactic acid to it ?

I've tried that... It's not a good sour flavor. Perhaps only to drop it a little bit on pH I could but wouldn't want to add a lot.

 

[marc1]

As the title says, I'm in the middle of a brew and added 15 IBUs to what was going to be a gose. I had a brain fart....

I have 4 packs of Omega Lacto that states it's hop intolerant at even 2 IBU. Is it worth pitching all 4 packs into this 18 gallon batch to see if it does anything?

I am going to make a run and get some Philly Sour which I hear is hop tolerant but wondering if the OYL-605 will even do anything...

HELP!!!!

Philly Sour is yeast, not bacteria, so it is fine with hops. It does make lactic acid. Give it some simple sugars to eat, which helps with the sourness.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Philly Sour is yeast, not bacteria, so it is fine with hops. It does make lactic acid. Give it some simple sugars to eat, which helps with the sourness.

So I mashed low - 149-150. Anything else I should give it to make sure it sours sufficiently?

 

[marc1]

So I mashed low - 149-150. Anything else I should give it to make sure it sours sufficiently?

Maybe ~5-10% glucose. Check the Philly Sour thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...-sour-feedback-or-experience-to-share.682096/post 63 about the glucose.

 

[marc1]

Also, see this post:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...xperience-to-share.682096/page-7#post-9085562

 

[Rob2010SS]

Alright, philly sour is in... We'll see how she does.

Listened to a video on the way to the LHBS and they recommend 1-1.5 g/l pitch rate for optimal lactic acid production. I'm at like .7 g/l so it won't be optimal lactic acid but it should still be sour or tart.

I pre-acidified a bit. I added 15 ml of lactic acid to the wort to start with. I'm going to test it tomorrow and see where it's at and possibly add more. Right now we're sitting at 5.02 pH of the wort before acid addition. I might try and get that down to 4.6-4.8 or so to help with the acidity.

Anyone know of a calculator to determine how much acid to add to wort to drop the pH?

 

[marc1]

Alright, philly sour is in... We'll see how she does.

Listened to a video on the way to the LHBS and they recommend 1-1.5 g/l pitch rate for optimal lactic acid production. I'm at like .7 g/l so it won't be optimal lactic acid but it should still be sour or tart.

I pre-acidified a bit. I added 15 ml of lactic acid to the wort to start with. I'm going to test it tomorrow and see where it's at and possibly add more. Right now we're sitting at 5.02 pH of the wort before acid addition. I might try and get that down to 4.6-4.8 or so to help with the acidity.

Anyone know of a calculator to determine how much acid to add to wort to drop the pH?

Mash Made Easy has a kettle pH acidification calculator in it.

 

[Rob2010SS]

Mash Made Easy has a kettle pH acidification calculator in it.

It's telling me just under 20 mL of lactic will drop it to 4.8.... seems a bit low, no?

I added 15 so I'll just have to see where it's at tomorrow. I did not check pre boil pH so the 5.4 is a guess...

 

[marc1]

It's telling me just under 20 mL of lactic will drop it to 4.8.... seems a bit low, no?


View attachment 753837

I added 15 so I'll just have to see where it's at tomorrow. I did not check pre boil pH so the 5.4 is a guess...

If you took your stabilized mash pH (near the end of your mash), that's basically going to be your pre-boil pH. At least it was the few times I measured both.

If you didn't take that, then 5.4 is a fine guess, but still a guess. This should probably give you some ballpark numbers.

I usually try to drop the pH from ~5.4 Pre-boil to 5.2 or 5.1 post boil. Looking at real data from the last time I did this:

PRE-BOIL
volume: 12.64g
SG: 1.051
pH: 5.35
Target: 5.2

Predicted mL 88% lactic to change it: 0.58
Actual post boil pH: 5.22

The boil also drops the pH some, so it's not just the acid doing the work.

You're doing a much larger drop on a larger volume, so doesn't fail the reasonability test to me.

Also, I don't think the calculator was designed for post boil changes, but should get you a starting point to work from.

 

[superiorsat]

Unless someone tells me that pitching Philly Sour and a couple packs of Omega OYL 605 is a bad idea...

OYL 605 is my favorite but you are in a situation that you might just as well save it for future batches. Seems like you must have been fully through your boil since the salt and coriander would normally go in towards the end of the boil. I only boil for like 10 minutes to kill any competing bugs then cool the wort to 90 degrees, Then pitch the lacto that I build a starter for. 24 hours later of kettle souring I check ph and if it is good restart the boil and procced as normal. I had done some research on Philly Sour and my conclusion was that it is more of a tart or slightly sour but I thought if it saved me doing kettle sours I'd give it a try. I brew in a garage and apparently mold spores floated into the fermenter when transferring the wort. Philly sour is such a slooooooow starter that it gave the mold a chance to take off. It was like 4 days before any krausen started to form and I was freaking out ( with good reason as the mold was dominating in the first 4 days). I call the manufacturer and the guy was like it is a really slow starter and I asked about the black speckles in the dark colored yeast and he said somethig about salt and pepper and that it was normal. The black stuff is what ever they scraped off a tree in Philly and for the first couple of days it works to create the lactic acid then eventually it starts to ferment. Long story short these split batch fruited sours both ended up with mold. I've never had a moldy beer in all my years but I never used a yeast that took over 4 days to take off either. I won't be using Philly Sour again. The lactic acid route is not your normal sour flavor and I also avoid that from now on as well. Maybe just make it a fruit beer of some sort, the amount of coriander and salt is probably not going to be noticeable.

 

[Jag75]

.

 

[Rob2010SS]

OYL 605 is my favorite but you are in a situation that you might just as well save it for future batches. Seems like you must have been fully through your boil since the salt and coriander would normally go in towards the end of the boil. I only boil for like 10 minutes to kill any competing bugs then cool the wort to 90 degrees, Then pitch the lacto that I build a starter for. 24 hours later of kettle souring I check ph and if it is good restart the boil and procced as normal. I had done some research on Philly Sour and my conclusion was that it is more of a tart or slightly sour but I thought if it saved me doing kettle sours I'd give it a try. I brew in a garage and apparently mold spores floated into the fermenter when transferring the wort. Philly sour is such a slooooooow starter that it gave the mold a chance to take off. It was like 4 days before any krausen started to form and I was freaking out ( with good reason as the mold was dominating in the first 4 days). I call the manufacturer and the guy was like it is a really slow starter and I asked about the black speckles in the dark colored yeast and he said somethig about salt and pepper and that it was normal. The black stuff is what ever they scraped off a tree in Philly and for the first couple of days it works to create the lactic acid then eventually it starts to ferment. Long story short these split batch fruited sours both ended up with mold. I've never had a moldy beer in all my years but I never used a yeast that took over 4 days to take off either. I won't be using Philly Sour again. The lactic acid route is not your normal sour flavor and I also avoid that from now on as well. Maybe just make it a fruit beer of some sort, the amount of coriander and salt is probably not going to be noticeable.

Yeah the omega lacto is my go to. I think what happened is I looked at an old recipe sheet where I was still kettle souring. In those cases, I would kettle sour and then boil and add hops as usual. These days I’m co pitching in the fermenter with lacto and yeast and skipping the kettle sour (too many risks with kettle souring for me). That’s how I got mixed up. I kinda rushed through the thought process.
From what I read and heard in videos, If used correctly, Philly sour would get down to 3.3 - 3.5 pH, similar to what I’d get with omega lacto (3.2ish). However, a big part of that is pitch rate. I’m a little shy of optimal pitch rate.
That said, after adding 15 ml of lactic acid, I’m down to 4.72 from 5.02. I added another 10 ml today which should get me down to 4.52. Now I’m going to let Philly sour go to work and see what it gets down too. I’m hoping for at least 3.5 pH at bare minimum.

 

[Rob2010SS]

OYL 605 is my favorite but you are in a situation that you might just as well save it for future batches. Seems like you must have been fully through your boil since the salt and coriander would normally go in towards the end of the boil. I only boil for like 10 minutes to kill any competing bugs then cool the wort to 90 degrees, Then pitch the lacto that I build a starter for. 24 hours later of kettle souring I check ph and if it is good restart the boil and procced as normal. I had done some research on Philly Sour and my conclusion was that it is more of a tart or slightly sour but I thought if it saved me doing kettle sours I'd give it a try. I brew in a garage and apparently mold spores floated into the fermenter when transferring the wort. Philly sour is such a slooooooow starter that it gave the mold a chance to take off. It was like 4 days before any krausen started to form and I was freaking out ( with good reason as the mold was dominating in the first 4 days). I call the manufacturer and the guy was like it is a really slow starter and I asked about the black speckles in the dark colored yeast and he said somethig about salt and pepper and that it was normal. The black stuff is what ever they scraped off a tree in Philly and for the first couple of days it works to create the lactic acid then eventually it starts to ferment. Long story short these split batch fruited sours both ended up with mold. I've never had a moldy beer in all my years but I never used a yeast that took over 4 days to take off either. I won't be using Philly Sour again. The lactic acid route is not your normal sour flavor and I also avoid that from now on as well. Maybe just make it a fruit beer of some sort, the amount of coriander and salt is probably not going to be noticeable.

I did call Omega on my way to the lhbs to ask them if there was any chance of their lacto working in this case. He told me absolutely not. He said that they’ve had commercial breweries who used this product fail to get ANY sourness from this lacto just from having a small amount of hop debris in the heat exchanger. So I kept those packs for future batches.

I also called Wyeast to see what they had and they confirmed that WY5223 PC (lacto brevis) would sufficiently sour this beer. However my shop didn’t have this available.

I’ll post back with updates once Philly Sour goes to work.