Curious... Yeast starter, but not using malt extract

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Bad Influence

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OK, I have the books, videos, magazines, yadda, yadda, yadda.

I still get confused when I read about stressing yeast.

I have for YEARS made a simple slurry cooking water and dextrose and using that as a starter.

24 hours later, plenty of growth and then often pitch the yeast. I have done this with Wyeast (even recently) that was almost a year past it's expiration date - worked like a charm.

Is it possible..... that I've been incredibly lucky (but this much luck, I shoulda won the lottery I didn't play, right) or something else.

It's always worked, but I'm curious if anyone has an answer why I've never stressed out my yeast.

Better luck with the yeast than the ex wife!

Thanx,

Jonathan
 
I don't think it's so much about stressing the yeast as making a bunch of lazy yeast... in other words, fermenting dextrose is as simple as it gets, so you're making a bunch of simpletons. If you use malt extract for your starter, the yeast should be able to more readily break down the complex sugars. You might just have "better" results by using DME instead of dextrose.
 
i personally wouldnt use yeast that old to begin with, its cheap enough its not worth a batch of beer ha ha. and as far as the dextrose starter goes, i agree with the lazy yeast post. you want them to consume some longer chain sugars, not be so focused on monodextrins. but if it works for you then who am i to criticise?
 
Yeast are incredibly dynamic. Sure in the dextrose they get simple, but even simple fathers have bread geniuses. Give the yeast a little credit.
 
i do give the yeast plenty of credit, but why make starters of dextrose when dme is cheap and readily available and proven? if dextrose works for you congrats, but i wont switch my methods. and if dextrose works for him, he shouldnt change either i guess. but as far as ranching and everything goes i would personally never do starters of dextrose, just my 2 cents
 
I've asked this same question before and got pretty much the same responses you did. Most everyone says not to do it because you'll end up with "challenged" yeast. Of course this is only what these people have read somewhere else. It seems that no one has actually tried it and experienced issues that they could trace back to the yeast starter.

BTW, I've done it before and had no problems at all.
 
I think the argument against using dextrose is yeast health. Wort contains essential nutrients that yeast need for proper growth.

Lazy yeast sounds like a ridiculous argument at best. They aren't lazy, they just may not be as healthy.

Here is a great write up about yeast propogation, I think it discusses some of these issues but don't recall of the top of my head.

http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-propagation-and-maintenance-principles-and-practices
 
i personally wouldnt use yeast that old to begin with, its cheap enough its not worth a batch of beer ha ha.

Why?

Bobby M recently did a test on year old stored yeast here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/testing-limits-yeast-viability-126707/

And my LHBS cells outdated tubes and packs of yeast dirt cheap 2-3 dollars each and I usually grab a couple tubes of belgian or other interesting yeast when I am there and shove it in my fridge. and I have never had a problem with one of those tubes.

I usually make a starter but I once pitched a year old tube of Belgian High Gravity yeast directly into a 2.5 gallon batch of a Belgian Dark Strong, and after about 4 days it took off beautifully.

Same with jarred yeast.

With any stored, old yeast you just need first to apply the "sniff test" if it smell bad, especially if it smells like week old gorilla poop in a diaper left on the side of the road in the heat of summer.

Then make a starter, and if it takes off you are fine. The purpose of a starter is to reproduce any viable cells in a batch of yeast....that;s how we can grow a starter form the dregs in a bottle of beer incrementally...and that beer may be months old.

Even if you have a few still living cells, you can grow them....That's how we can harvest a huge starter (incrementally) from the dregs in a bottle of some commercial beers. You take those few living cells and grow them into more.

If yeast can be grown from a tiny amount that has been encased in amber for 45 million years, 45 million year old yeast ferments amber ale we really don't need to sweat too much about yeast viability....

we just need to think in terms of making starters. Viability isn't really an issue if you are reproducing a lot of healthy cells. Which is what you are doing when you make a starter.....
Really even with "old yeast" if there is a few cells, they will reproduce.

There's nothing wrong with using old yeast at all...and as for cheap, even dry yeast has gone up in price this year. I used to by US-05 for $1.89 as far back as a year ago, now it is over three bucks.
 
Thanx all for the replies!

The old yeast is fine...... I did that once before. It wasn't a matter of being cheap per se.... but finding out the day before (when the LHBS is closed) that the yeast is way past date. Which is what happened to me last month.

Funny REVVY should say it, but I'm a freakish nut over Belgian beers. I brew a Belgian style for every other batch I brew experimenting - and this yeast was Belgian.

Long story short, the yeast got off to a happy start (the year old stuff) and is right on target for the brew.

I agree that the "what works, works" bit. But I'm finding myself in shorter supply for malt extract since I bought all grain gear :)

What matters most is we have fun and enjoy the fruits of our labors.

These forums are great for asking such questions and thanx again,

Jonathan
 

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