Cultivating a yeast from Can dregs

[Dgallo]

so I understand the process of starters and propagating yeast to meet a specific pitch rates, but this will be my first propagation from dregs. My question surrounds why most resources call for the initial starter to be so low in volume and at an OG of 1.024/1.026? I just can’t seem to find much in the way of theory why to start so low except for those claiming the yeast will produce off flavors, but that seems like that shouldn’t have an impact at all since I’ll be decanting each build up starter. The only thing I can possibly think of why to start so low is to increase the cell count per volume of the initial starter so tht it can out compete any possible infections.

Does anyone have any resources or information why the initial starter should be low in volume and Og? Thanks in advance.

 

[couchsending]

I believe it just has to do with building healthier yeast. You want them to replicate in as healthy an environment as possible.

When harvesting dregs you’re also dumping alcohol into the starter right away. A lower wort gravity won’t result in as much alcohol produced.

I’m pretty much exclusively using a yeast that I harvest from cans of a 6% beer. I use 3 12 oz cans and pour them into 250ml of 1.020 wort. Leave it at room temp for two days without a stir bar. I then dump 1000-1200ml of 1.040 wort into that same flask and stir it for 24-36 hours. Decent and pitch that into 5 gallons of a 5ish or sub 5% beer and harvest from there.

Just be very diligent about your sanitation. I use alcohol, gloves, and flame everything when I’m harvesting and building clean yeast from dregs.

 

[IslandLizard]

The most important reason for using small volumes of starter wort is inoculation rate, so she can establish herself quickly, crowding out any infection vectors that slipped in.

Together with low gravity wort, it helps the yeast establish herself quicker by dropping the pH to her preferred range, reduces osmotic shock, among many other environmental reasons. It also prevents alcohol building up which has no benefit in (step) starters. She needs to be encouraged to bud, multiply, not ferment beer. Hence the associated perpetual need for aeration/oxygenation at the same time.

In that light, combining the dregs of several cans/bottles of the same increases her chances and speeds up the process to remain or become the sole microflora in the starter.

 

[Dgallo]

The most important reason for using small volumes of starter wort is inoculation rate, so she can establish herself quickly, crowding out any infection vectors that slipped in.

Together with low gravity wort, it helps the yeast establish herself quicker by dropping the pH to her preferred range, reduces osmotic shock, among many other environmental reasons. It also prevents alcohol building up which has no benefit in (step) starters. She needs to be encouraged to bud, multiply, not ferment beer. Hence the associated perpetual need for aeration/oxygenation at the same time.

In that light, combining the dregs of several cans/bottles of the same increases her chances and speeds up the process to remain or become the sole microflora in the starter.

Ok good. That confirms what I was thinking

 

[IslandLizard]

1.024-26 can still be a bit high for tired, packaged yeast, depending on how long she's been in there, and the alcohol level of the beer above.

1.010-1.012 is recommended for 1st step starters from frozen cultures. I'd start there, or maybe in between, ~1.018?
Watch for the starter's color change as a tell tale of her numbers increasing.

Needless to say perhaps, but just in case. Before culturing from dregs, make sure you're getting the yeast strain you're after, not some generic bottling yeast that was added after the beer has been filtered or centrifuged.
I'd say with cans the probability of getting the actual beer's fermentation strain are high, as secondary (conditioning) fermentations in cans are not common, likely non-existent. The absence of O2 in most cans should also help in her survival.

 

[Dgallo]

1.024-26 can still be a bit high for tired, packaged yeast, depending on how long she's been in there, and the alcohol level of the beer above.

1.010-1.012 is recommended for 1st step starters from frozen cultures. I'd start there, or maybe in between, ~1.018?
Watch for the starter's color change as a tell tale of her numbers increasing.

Needless to say perhaps, but just in case. Before culturing from dregs, make sure you're getting the yeast strain you're after, not some generic bottling yeast that was added after the beer has been filtered or centrifuged.
I'd say with cans the probability of getting the actual beer's fermentation strain are high, as secondary (conditioning) fermentations in cans are not common, likely non-existent. The absence of O2 in most cans should also help in her survival.

I’m cultivating Equilibrium’s yeast from 2 cans of one of their pales and 2 cans of the single IPA I got recently. Both canned December and below 6.8 abv. It should be easy as far as what I’ve read and looks like I’ve been on the right track. I pitched the dregs about an hour ago into 1.024 wort so I’m hoping I’m ok, if not I have some Imperial Dryhop as a back up

 

[IslandLizard]

I’m cultivating Equilibrium’s yeast from 2 cans of one of their pales and 2 cans of the single IPA I got recently. Both canned December and below 6.8 abv. It should be easy as far as what I’ve read and looks like I’ve been on the right track. I pitched the dregs about an hour ago into 1.024 wort so I’m hoping I’m ok, if not I have some Imperial Dryhop as a back up

Hope it works out, these dreg cultures are always an adventure. Please keep us posted on progress or definitely on the results.
You will have to do a few step ups, but the first step (or 2) always take the most time. Make sure to overbuild the final step so you can save some out for a next starter.

My last ESB dregs culture I was raising in a bottle was promising, bready, until it suddenly turned vile. Had to toss it.
My own fault, I didn't anticipate making one before opening the bottle, so the cap and lip didn't get properly sanitized before pouring out the beer.

 

[Dgallo]

Hope it works out, these dreg cultures are always an adventure. Please keep us posted on progress or definitely on the results.
You will have to do a few step ups, but the first step (or 2) always take the most time. Make sure to overbuild the final step so you can save some out for a next starter.

My last ESB dregs culture I was raising in a bottle was promising, bready, until it suddenly turned vile. Had to toss it.

Thanks for the heads up and I def will. I planned on 3 steps but I’ll most likely need 4 since I’m trying to clone their TIPA Straight out of the Laboratory at a 10.2 abv

 

[IslandLizard]

I’ll most likely need 4

 

[Dgallo]

I shouldn’t technically say clone per say, I AM trying to mimic/replicate their base of that beer so I can use my hop combo and process to add one more high abv style to my repertoire

 

[couchsending]

You shouldn’t need 4 steps. 3 will be plenty.

I’d make a lowish ABV non hoppy beer with it first then harvest from that for the Triple if I was you.

They might also use a combo of yeasts when they get to that level of ABV. I know a lot of guys making modern triples that throw some Chico in to get the gravity low enough so they’re drinkable and not incredibly sweet.

Ever degassed one of their 10% beers?

 

[Dgallo]

You shouldn’t need 4 steps. 3 will be plenty.

I’d make a lowish ABV non hoppy beer with it first then harvest from that for the Triple if I was you.

They might also use a combo of yeasts when they get to that level of ABV. I know a lot of guys making modern triples that throw some Chico in to get the gravity low enough so they’re drinkable and not incredibly sweet.

Ever degassed one of their 10% beers?

I’ve degassed two so far. Non lactose TIPA was 1.024. The one with lactose was just about 1.030

 

[couchsending]

Wow I’m amazed it’s that high of a FG!

 

[Dgallo]

Just reversing the math, it’s roughly around 75% attenuation for a 10.2% beer to finish 1.024, which is pretty typical

 

[couchsending]

Yes but 1.024 is pretty sweet, then put 10% alcohol on top of that and all the sweetness that brings.

Personally I find with bigger hoppier beers the lower FG the better. Makes them feel/drink much lighter than their alcohol level.

 

[Dgallo]

So I abandoned the mission here. The yeast never seemed to get aggressive in any of the build up starters and since it was going into a 1.098, wasn’t going to risk it. Eq has another release today so I’m going to try again with more dregs to start.

 

[BrewMan13]

So I abandoned the mission here. The yeast never seemed to get aggressive in any of the build up starters and since it was going into a 1.098, wasn’t going to risk it. Eq has another release today so I’m going to try again with more dregs to start.

Holla at ya boy next time. I've successfully built up some old dregs before with good results. Yeast is a hearty beast if you treat it right. Didn't do anything fancy, just a half strength starter, let it go until I saw activity, then amped it up to a full strength one.