Culling "Friends"

[Vedexent]

I find it more effective to shoot at who's fault it is. (Hint: it's not the dog).

While I certainly do not advocate violence - much less shooting - there is definitely a percentage of the population which won't alter their behavior until there's a direct personal reason for them to do so.

They're never progressed beyond the "you don't steal cookies out of the jar because you'll get spanked" level of morality.

You can't appeal to "reason" or their "better natures" - they'll do whatever they can, if there's no consequence.

So you give them a consequence (just not shooting, please).

 

[Vedexent]

I don't rate my friends by whether they remember to return my bottles.... You are pretty self centered!!!

You could argue that it's not rating people on whether they return bottles, but whether they are willing to treat you and your possession with the same level of consideration that they give themselves and their posessions - i.e. are they willing to treat you as an equal and another person.

Beer and beer bottles is a pretty damn shallow way to gauge it - some people just forget, and some people don't realize that flip top bottles are probably more expensive then the homebrew in it.

But the underlying principle is sound.

Personally? I probably wouldn't gift anyone with beer if I wasn't also willing to gift them the bottle.

I might not give away as much beer ( unless you're willing to sit down in my living room - in which case you're likely to get a lot more beer; "You like that one, here let me break open a couple of bottles of this, see what you think ...". ) - but I'm not going to get cranky about not getting my bottles back.

 

[Lefou]

I generally just give away 12 oz, and don't expect them back, nor do I ask. There aren't a ton of home brewers in NJ, so not everyone knows the etiquette. Empty bottles are about $0.60 at the LHBS, so I figure this into the gift....I also keg, and find it a pain to bottle....so I don't give away much anyways, rather like to serve to house guests.

People have the ingrained perception that no one really wants glass because it's disposable and recyclable. That's true if you have no reason to re-use the bottles. I hoard my 22oz bottles with a passion.
Homebrewing is still an arcane art to some and I think it's due in part to economics and culture where, if you want it, you simply pay for it. I live in Ocean County and when the township does recycle pickup, the scrappers here have a pretty profitable day getting curbside metals and even dead appliances from homeowners. I suspect it's common elsewhere.

 

[Lefou]

While I certainly do not advocate violence - much less shooting - there is definitely a percentage of the population which won't alter their behavior until there's a direct personal reason for them to do so.

They're never progressed beyond the "you don't steal cookies out of the jar because you'll get spanked" level of morality.

You can't appeal to "reason" or their "better natures" - they'll do whatever they can, if there's no consequence.

So you give them a consequence (just not shooting, please).

This is why we can't have nice things.
As a general rule, I avoid and evade those of low moral character. I'd rather not waste my valuable beer, bacon, or copper-jacketed lead on the truly undeserving unless it's a truly special occasion.
That said, I love my animals and never allow them run the streets. They shouldn't be held responsible for the owner's gross ignorance.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Judging your friends by their political views is pretty sad buddy

 

[Murphys_Law]

Some people simply don't realize that home brewers recycle bottles so it doesn't occur to them to return gifted bottles. Just not part of their thought process. If I was that concerned I'd tell them you'd appreciate the bottles back... clean.

And I would pick friends to gift beer to on merit and not who or how they vote.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I heard a buddy on the phone while drinking my beer. "Hey man I'm drinking awesome beer right now, and it is free."
I have started to limit what gets distributed. When I bottle, it is in 750's. The only beer I buy is in a 750. Those bottles are $3.00 each. For me, it isn't about the getting bottles back. It is the fact that no attention is given to the work/$ it takes to supply. I do like sharing. I do not like freeloaders. I'm not giving out bottles anymore. They want it, they can bring a growler.

 

[ChefRex]

While I certainly do not advocate violence - much less shooting - there is definitely a percentage of the population which won't alter their behavior until there's a direct personal reason for them to do so.

They're never progressed beyond the "you don't steal cookies out of the jar because you'll get spanked" level of morality.

You can't appeal to "reason" or their "better natures" - they'll do whatever they can, if there's no consequence.

So you give them a consequence (just not shooting, please).

There's no need to shoot the dog or it's owner, I heard electrocution works quite well.

 

[thekraken]

... A person's character is reflected in his or her actions...

This coming from the guy who is looking for the opportunity to shoot his neighbors dogs. What the hell dude?!? I think we all know what kind of person you are now.

 

[Lefou]

There's no need to shoot the dog or it's owner, I heard electrocution works quite well.

I know people who've used this method to deter trespassers, thieves, and animals. It usually involves a transformer, batteries, a few bucks, and some smarts.

 

[Maylar]

I only bottle in 12 oz cappers and I don't expect them back. If I ever use swing tops I would make a point to ask for them back and the people who I give to would gladly do that. Clean or not, I dunno. Not many people wash a beer bottle by habit.

I once lent a close Friend my shop vac so he could clean his furnace and it came back full of black soot and the filter clogged up. PMRO. If he ever wants it again I will mention that and I'm sure he'd wash it out. A 40 year friendship isn't contingent on knowing how much of a pita it is to clean a pleated paper filter.

 

[Turkeyshot]

Just because they didn't return the bottle doesn't mean you get to kill them. Kind of a harsh punishment.

Depends on the price of the bottle and how many.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

When I give canned goods or bottles of beer, I just say in passing, if you return I can fill it again. works for most.

 

[Owly055]

This coming from the guy who is looking for the opportunity to shoot his neighbors dogs. What the hell dude?!? I think we all know what kind of person you are now.

I guess intolerance for dogs running in a pack killing cats and whatever else paints me as a bad dude???

As I see it, there are two solutions to this problem. One is that the owner keep his dogs under control and not let them run loose, the other is for me to shoot the dogs. Animal control here comes out of the barrel of a gun in this tiny town of 5 people. What solution do you have to offer?

Dogs are not people, they are animals, like coyotes, raccoons, skunks, and of course game animals. There seems to be an absurd prevalence of the anthropomorphic attitude that dogs are somehow just adorable furry children, when in fact they are but one step removed from the wild, and revert effortlessly, carrying the same killer instinct as their wild cousins. Nobody gets very upset when I trap or shoot skunks and coons when they become troublesome pests........ The only difference is that they "belong" to someone. Dogs that run loose and kill cats, are the same dogs that will get into somebody's sheep and kill them. One rancher friend of mine has killed literally hundreds of dogs over the years. Living only 3 miles out of a town of 2000 people, the town dogs get to running wild, just like these, and end up in his sheep, killing an maiming. The town has a leash law, and the owners ignore it, and believe that their dog remains in the yard all day. After being threatened by dog owners irate that he would dare to shoot their beloved pet (that was killing sheep), he no longer contacts owners. Any dogs seen on his ranch are shot immediately, before they can kill sheep. This is as it should be.

H.W.

 

[Lefou]

In Der Pipple's Republic of NJ, a guy left a squirrel trap on his roof during summertime. He was out of the house, but caught the squirrel. An overly vigilant neighbor called authorities and he was prosecuted for not calling the useless animal control people. I guess a squirrel invasion ruining his house was the responsibility of paid state-approved exterminators .... doing things yourself in a certain manner is frowned on, to say the least.
http://www.nj.com/news/local/index.ssf/2010/04/parsippany_man_accused_of_kill.html

Here we can't own .177 or .22cal air rifles without a permit - they are treated the same way as other firearms and citizens are prohibited from using them for "animal control" purposes. Is there an answer to this?
Yes, eventually ... but that's off the reservation talk for this forum.

 

[Vedexent]

It's harsh - but the behavior of any entity not under it's own control, and for which it is not personally "culpable" under the law or social order ( pets, children, etc.) - are the responsibility of the entity which does control them.

Dogs running amok in the neighborhood - children having a meltdown tantrum in the shopping mall - juvenile criminals; these are all the responsibility of their parent, or guardian, who is culpable for the actions of their "wards".

It may be harsh, but I think few(er) people would object to the descruction of wild dogs coming in from the wilderness and killing people's domesticated animals. A "pet" dog which is uncontrolled by its owner, and damages property and lives of other domesticated animals is effectively wild. I see no moral issues in putting down such an animal, and what's more the culpability for destruction of said animal lies with the negligent owner, not the agency which destroys that animal.

As a matter of practicality however, I'm not going to go shooting problem animals, any more than I'm going to go up and "bitch slap" parents who fail to control screaming children in public (although, I'm reeeeally tempted - they clearly need a 'personal consequence' to incent them to address their responsibilities - and I do think parents of juvenile criminals should be charged and convicted of the crimes committed by those juveniles for whom they are responsible).

Or do people believe that the dog has more inherent rights of "self expression" than other people have property rights or other domesticated animals have right to life? Property rights could be argued - although I think the owner is responsible for restitution even in that case - but if you are going to "sanctify" the life of the pet dog, the life of other animals must be similary elevated, and the protection of many outweighs the protection of an individual.

 

[Lefou]

In certain places, it's gotten to the point where pit bulls are being discriminated against as a "problem" due to reputation, breeding history, and the irresponsible behaviors of the owners. I love dogs as much as the next guy, but I agree 100% that owners must be responsible for the consequences of their pets.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Judging your friends by their political views and shooting dogs...

You have issues....deep ...deep issues

 

[RustyHorn]

This thread is comedy gold. It's like the whole special needs community of these boards have come together in one thread.

 

[shoengine]

We all have needs. Don't discriminate against them for being "special".

 

[Stillraining]

I laughed at the political insert, but there are some dogs that have absolutely no use to humanity. Putting them down is the most beneficial to all.
We have always had dogs we have 4 right now, Over the years only 2 of them have been problems. And no amount of training or money spent or time invested cured their habits to a trustworthy status. One chased horses rather riders were on them or not. The other nipped kids. Both of which I came very close to shooting, The 120lb female Malamute that nipped kids, I should have shot her the second time it happened, as the guy that we gave her too that promised us she would not be around kids ended up biting a relatives kid..He then gave the dog to some guy living on 100 acres in Eastern Washington under the agreement it was not to be around kids.. The wife and I both wish to this day we would have just put her down instead, as the potential was always there for this dog to seriously harm someone much more valuable then that stupid dogs life was ever worth no mater how beautiful she was. I shake my head in total dumbfoundment at those whom dont get that concept.
I have put down 3 dogs 2 cats and two Horses..a tear always comes to my eye, but those were out of mercy and beloved friends of the family. I would not have given a seconds pause to have dispatched the other two. They were wasted space on earth.

 

[Owly055]

I probably sound like some kind of ogre to some dog owners / lovers. The truth is that I've had dogs and cats over the years, though I've never had to own horses, an expensive animal to maintain that rarely gets any use. Most of my friends own horses, and after a spell 35 years ago when I rode year round pretty much all day every day for my work, I don't ride for recreation. I have numerous "dog friends" both here and on local ranches where they know me and always come up to greet me. I have zero tolerance for problem dogs, nor does the old saw "it isn't the dog's fault" even begin to impress me. Fault really doesn't matter. I have killed numerous dogs myself in the act of killing or harassing livestock...... also coyotes and foxes, one pit bull that had another dog by the throat..... I had a 22 in my pocket for just that reason. The worst by far are the pit bulls. My experience with pit owners is that for the most part, they are exactly the people who should not own one, though I don't feel they have a reason to exist at all. The first time I ever killed a dog, I did it with my bare hands as a teenager. Walking down the sidewalk in the winter, a medium size German Shepard attacked me, protecting "his sidewalk". I didn't know the dog or the neighborhood. I was wearing a very heavy wool jacket, the type we used to call a P-Coat. He went for my throat, and I gave him my right arm instead, and dived into the lawn with the dog locked onto my arm. I wasn't a big kid, but I was extremely powerful. The "fight" lasted less than a minute. I landed on the dog and broke his neck by pulling his head back. Pure adrenaline power. The owner unfortunately was in the yard at the time, screaming the whole time, probably 15-20 seconds, and she and her husband threatened to "press charges", and actually had the nerve to call the cops. My injuries were minimal.... Tooth marks in my skin, and a bit of scraped skin.... thanks to my clothing. The officers convinced the people that I was NOT trespassing because the incident happened in their lawn, and that they would be lucky if I didn't press charges, though they absurdly tried to paint a picture where I had come into the yard and attacked their dog. People are strange ..............
Of course it wasn't the dog's fault......... he was poorly trained and had irresponsible owners....... did I give a damn when I was fighting for my life?

H.W.

I laughed at the political insert, but there are some dogs that have absolutely no use to humanity. Putting them down is the most beneficial to all.
We have always had dogs we have 4 right now, Over the years only 2 of them have been problems. And no amount of training or money spent or time invested cured their habits to a trustworthy status. One chased horses rather riders were on them or not. The other nipped kids. Both of which I came very close to shooting, The 120lb female Malamute that nipped kids, I should have shot her the second time it happened, as the guy that we gave her too that promised us she would not be around kids ended up biting a relatives kid..He then gave the dog to some guy living on 100 acres in Eastern Washington under the agreement it was not to be around kids.. The wife and I both wish to this day we would have just put her down instead, as the potential was always there for this dog to seriously harm someone much more valuable then that stupid dogs life was ever worth no mater how beautiful she was. I shake my head in total dumbfoundment at those whom dont get that concept.
I have put down 3 dogs 2 cats and two Horses..a tear always comes to my eye, but those were out of mercy and beloved friends of the family. I would not have given a seconds pause to have dispatched the other two. They were wasted space on earth.

 

[akthor]

Some of my best friends. The ones I'd call to help me bury a dead hooker kind of best friends. Never return bottles or wash them if they do and would frankly be perplexed if I was to get upset about a bottle. In the grand scheme of things a bottle seems pretty silly when a friend has carried your passed out ass home and made sure you didn't pull a Bon Scott. Or helped you replace the timing belt in your car. Or played wingman to help you pick up that chick. Or had your back in that fist fight. Or brought you to the emergency room after you fell and broke your collar bone. Or watched your dog while you went on vacation. Seems kind of petty to get mad at a lost bottle. While their at it maybe they should pay for the beer you give them too?

 

[akthor]

BTW I am an avid dog owner and lover but I totally agree with owly as far as Pit Bulls and their owners.

 

[MaryB]

Add a Ford V8 ignition coil and a way to pulse the switch, supplies about 50,000 volts down the wire

There's no need to shoot the dog or it's owner, I heard electrocution works quite well.

I know people who've used this method to deter trespassers, thieves, and animals. It usually involves a transformer, batteries, a few bucks, and some smarts.

 

[ChelisHubby]

As a old farm boy the shooting of dogs or cats that can and do damage the v various farm animals is nessasary those who don't understand need to put the attacked animals out of their misery or pay the vet bills with the loss of income. I have been there and done that and while the dog or cat is not at fault the owner of the attacked should not have to bear the burden of the loss either. It aint a perfect or a fair world, and before you speak to politics I voted Democrat. When someone can make it a fair world let me know I aint afraid of Hell. Pardon my poor spelling and English I have had a couple or 5.

 

[MaryB]

I have shot 7 dogs running wild in a pack chasing AND KILLING deer. Plus they are breeding with the coyotes and coydogs are mean and vicious. One attacked a 4 year old girl in my town. I caught it on a security camera and the parents had it on a camera so I knew it was the same animal. 2 nights later it followed the same route into town where it promptly expired and now adorns my bed as a very warm bedspread.

Judging your friends by their political views and shooting dogs...

You have issues....deep ...deep issues

 

[RustyHorn]

We all have needs. Don't discriminate against them for being "special".

I'll accept that I othered a section of the community, but I can't see how it could be deemed discriminatory.

 

[Brownalemikie]

From friends returning empty bottles to politics to killing dogs. Hmmm, might be a good time for a moderator to lock this thread. JMO

 

[bajaedition]

From friends returning empty bottles to politics to killing dogs. Hmmm, might be a good time for a moderator to lock this thread. JMO

not now, I just popped some fresh popcorn