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Cross Over Ingredients (Porter/Dunkel)

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tagz

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I'm looking to brew two 2.5 batches in the coming weeks, porter for myself and a dunkelweizen for my wife. So, I'd like to know what ingredients I can use for both beers, and just get some general comments on the recipes. Here's what I was thinking:

Porter:

2.5 gallon batch - full boil
3# light dme
.5# chocolate malt
.175# black patent
.25# crystal 60
.5 oz. cascade (60 min)
wyeast 1056 (washed)
.5 pint cold brew coffee

OG: 1.059
FG: 1.015
IBU: 21

Dunkelweizen:

2.5 gallon batch - full boil
3# wheat dme (60/40)
.175# chocolate malt
.175# black patent
.25 crystal 60
.5 oz. saaz (60 min)
wyeast 3068 (washed)

OG: 1.054
FG: 1.014
IBU: 13

I'd be trying to use the chocolate, black patent, and crystal for both. My dad has some homegrown Cascade and Saaz, which is the reason for their selection. I could buy some Fuggles for the porter, but I figured since I'm doing one 60 min addition, it wouldn't matter that much.

So, what do you think? Is that going to be a strange dunkel?
 

zoebisch01

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Imo, there is nothing wrong with experimentation...but I tend to find that some of the better defined styles are usually very simple. That is going to be a very dark DunkelWeizen, I think by guessing that it will put it outside of the definition. I'd personally drop the black patent altogether and consider adding some Munich in there for a more well rounded flavor.

Oh the other thing I'd add is that most of those darker grains seem to need longer aging periods, which is in conflict of the fact that you will lose phenolics over time that imo, make the Weizen.
 
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tagz

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yeah i was wondering about that. i've seen it in a few recipes but wasn't too sure. so would you keep the chocolate? or just go .25# crystal and .25# munich?
 

zoebisch01

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You can add the chocolate, but just a very small amount for color. Doh, sorry I forgot Munich needs to be mashed. I have heard of mini-mashing, haven't done it myself...so I am not sure :( but there are loads of threads on it. If you can mini mash and that'll work, you can add quite a large amount of Munich. Vienna is also very fitting.

Good job on keeping the bittering to style! I personally like it like that.
 
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tagz

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i'm not up to the mashing quite yet, so i'd have to figure out some kind of substitution. do you think that wheat dme, crystal and chocolate would be too one dimensional or thin?
 

zoebisch01

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I have read on here that Aromatic Malt can be steeped and adds an exaggerated malty flavor which is what the Munich and/or Vienna would normally give you. I would give that a shot as well. As for amounts, I really don't know how much flavor you get when you steep as I am not familiar with the technique.
 
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