Critique my Brew Rig plumbing please

[pickles]

I have the plumbing pretty much the way I would like it, but wanted to see if people have any suggestions or see any flaws. Here is some background info regarding the drawing and layout: the arrows indicate flow; electric elements in the BK, HLT and RIMS; controlled via BrewTroller; included a loop from HLT through RIMS just to speed up water heating. Let me know what you think. The drawing is to scale except I had to stretch the frame left to right to show the plumbing clearly. I have the frame built and its nice and compact.

View attachment Pickles Brewery Plumbing Layout2 (1).pdf

 

[martinworswick]

are you using the rims to heat your strike water? if not then why the return valve to the hlt?
i'm not quite picturing your sight glass configuration,is it to monitor flow or volume?
also,what is the 2nd valve on the mt for(the lower one)?

 

[pickles]

I wish I knew how to display the drawing in the thread.

I am using the RIMS just for supplementing element in the HLT when heating water, I have the sight glass so i'm going to use it as a visual check that the mash is flowing (ss tubing elsewhere) and the lower fitting in the MT is for recirculating the mash and the upper fitting is for sparging.

 

[Goingforsound]

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I wish I knew how to display the drawing in the thread.

I am using the RIMS just for supplementing element in the HLT when heating water, I have the sight glass so i'm going to use it as a visual check that the mash is flowing (ss tubing elsewhere) and the lower fitting in the MT is for recirculating the mash and the upper fitting is for sparging.

I've had a bit to much to drink to absorb it all just now, but I don't think you want to recirc you mash into the middle of the grain bed. I recirc and sparge through the same return in the MT... near the top.

Also, I noticed one place where you mention a 3-way valve...have you actually located a 3-way valve? I ended up building a manifold (still a work in process) and probably could have used 3 ways if I could have found them.

 

[pickles]

I can scrap the lower recirculation fitting, I just thought it would be better with less splashing but not a big deal to delete. I have the 3-way valve in-hand. I got it from a medical surplus company (its actually 3 piece too).

 

[martinworswick]

i recirculate to the top one also,i use flexible hosing to return to the top of the grain bed to eliminate splashing, i also use the same for sparging,it creates a gentle meandering whirlpool on top of the grainbed,if you watch the video of sabcos system you'll see what i mean-thats where i stole the idea from.

to heat water quicker i use my bk for my strike water and hlt for sparge water,pump the bk to the mashtun and away i go,that way i have twice the heating power,but ,looking at your diagram again you'd just be moving a valve from hlt to bk so no benefit over the supplementary rims.

 

[pickles]

I'm using a Loc-line for the return in the MT so I guess I can position it so it doesn't splash. All the elements are 4500W with the RIMS element being switched between 120v and 240v depending on my heating needs. Its overkill I know but I like it. The rest of the flow looks ok?

 

[martinworswick]

yeah, looks ok to me,i use flexible hosing and you have piping and valves to do exactly the same as my flexihose and my system works fine so you should be sweet.i think i'll keep a copy of your design for if i ever go hard plumbed,its a lot simpler than a lot of designs out there!

 

[JonW]

If you're doing recirc on the MT, how are you heating and maintaining temp on your HLT?

 

[pickles]

If you're doing recirc on the MT, how are you heating and maintaining temp on your HLT?

The HLT has its own 4500W element. All control is provided by the BrewTroller.

 

[JonW]

From the looks of your drawing, there's only one RIMS tube to heat the water. It doesn't appear that you can do simultaneous heating and recirc on both the MT & HLT?

 

[pickles]

I dont plan to recirc the HLT unless I want to supplement the HLT heating element to heat water faster. When I'm recirculating the mash, I wont need to recirculate the HLT.

 

[JonW]

Sorry... missed the sentence in the first post that said electric elements in the kettles. From the drawing, I thought the RIMS tube was your only heat source for the MT & HLT.

 

[Sawdustguy]

Pickles,

You have a Brewtroller. Why are you not using solenoid valves for a little more automation? If you are just using the Brewtroller as three PID's, it may have been cheaper and easier to use 3 separate PID's.

 

[lehr]

Why two pumps..I do the same thing but use one pump...Just wondering.

Pat

 

[pickles]

Sawdustguy - I picked up a half dozen Whitey 3-piece sanitary valves (one of which is 3-way) for a song, but I have plans of future automation. I will also be monitoring temps at 6 locations which I couldn't do with a standard PID. Plus, as you know, BT offers me tons of expandability and options (volume control, possibly gravity measurement, etc). I'm a furniture maker so wood is second nature to me, but rarely do i get to explore metal and electronics so I saw it as a challenge.

Lehr - I picked up two Iwaki MD-70RLZ pumps for $40 ea. I just couldn't pass up buying two. Its rated at 11.4 gpm and 66 feet of head.

So basically I looked at what I had on hand and planned the plumbing around that.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I dont plan to recirc the HLT unless I want to supplement the HLT heating element to heat water faster. When I'm recirculating the mash, I wont need to recirculate the HLT.

I circulate the water in the HLT to prevent stratification (I think thats the word ). Basically, you can have wide variances in the temp of your HLT if you don't mix it some way. Thats why some folks use a stir motor. I just use a pump to circulate it while heating and during the fly sparge process.

 

[pickles]

I didn't think about stratification. What if while sparging I open both of the upper valves and feed water back into the HLT while sparging ? Would that work?

 

[Ohio-Ed]

I didn't think about stratification. What if while sparging I open both of the upper valves and feed water back into the HLT while sparging ? Would that work?

Thats exactly what I do. Just balance the water needed for fly sparging, and send the rest of the pumps output back to the HLT.

 

[Sawdustguy]

I'm a furniture maker so wood is second nature to me, but rarely do i get to explore metal and electronics so I saw it as a challenge.

I am an amatuer woodworker hence the moniker Sawdustguy. My pop was a custom cabinet maker. Companies like Kraftmaid eventually forced him out of business but he was nearing retirement anyway. I worked for my pop during college. I basically sanded my way through college. Anything that need hand sanding fell into my lap. There were times I remember falling asleep in the shop late at night with a piece of sandpaper in my hand when trying to make a deadline. My mom gave me the name Sawdustguy because I used to come home from the shop loaded with sawdust after working in the shop for my pop on a weekend. It damn near broke my heart when he sold his DeWalt radial arm saw and Unisaur (pun intended). The Unisaw was a Rockwell from the early 1950's and I was hoping to inherit his woodworking tools one day for my own shop but it was not to be. I purchased my own woodworking machinery and if I am not brewing, I am in my woodshop. To my wife it is another expensive hobby but it keeps me at home where she can find me and out of the bars.

 

[pickles]

I hear ya, I grew up with it also and have been pursueing it as a career for about 5 yrs. I've found that even though many people can go to a big box store for furniture many people appreciate mortise and tenon construction, handcut dovetails and are willing to pay for it. Also custom built-ins are very popular. It's addictive for sure!

 

[pickles]

Considering that I have the parts shown; anyone see problems with the layout? The RIMS will be upright as shown and has a drain on the bottom. I think it will be the lowest point in the system so I can drain lines after CIP. Will that work?

 

[JonW]

I circulate the water in the HLT to prevent stratification (I think thats the word ). Basically, you can have wide variances in the temp of your HLT if you don't mix it some way. Thats why some folks use a stir motor. I just use a pump to circulate it while heating and during the fly sparge process.

Pickles - This is why I was originally questioning the recirc of the MT & HLT. In my setup, I use two pumps as well, but the one for pumping the hot wort through the chiller does double duty of circulating the HLT. I designed it this way so that once sanitized, the only thing hitting that pump prior to wort was hot/warm water.

 

[pickles]

I see what your saying now. I am going to stick with the current layout and open both valves during sparge to stir HLT. Thanks for the input.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Considering that I have the parts shown; anyone see problems with the layout? The RIMS will be upright as shown and has a drain on the bottom. I think it will be the lowest point in the system so I can drain lines after CIP. Will that work?

As I mentioned, I build a manifold andI'm still working out the nuances. One thing I added and I don't see in you diagram is a "purge" valve.
I ended up with a valve with a short section of hose attached, just to purge air (I just stick the hose in a bucket to catch any water/wort that ends up coming out). I leaned that as you open and close valves, you will loose the prime on your pump... the "purge valve" will help. This is one of the things I need to work on... I have one, but need to take a closer look at the best place for it.

 

[pickles]

Ohio-Ed - do you have any drawings or photos of your setup? I'm curious to see how you have things laid out. I don't have a purge valve but I could probably work on into the design.

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Ohio-Ed - do you have any drawings or photos of your setup? I'm curious to see how you have things laid out. I don't have a purge valve but I could probably work on into the design.

I don't have any pictures and unfortunately it is still a work in process.
I started a thread a while back:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/brewery-plumbing-questions-158618/

The latest drawing (but not 100% up to date) is in message #24.

The bottom horizontal 2 lines is the manifold I built... Basically 5 valves with 2 inputs from the pumps. I put a valve between the left and right sides, so I can literally pump from any vessel to any vessel.

I also added another valve for purging the air on the input to Pump #2.
I can also purge air from valve #8 during the brew process.

I have brewed with it once... It's not intended to be are plumbed, but uses enough hoses that no swapping is needed during the process. The no swap part worked great, nice to just adjust valves.
Unfortunately I still have bugs to work out, mostly in making sure the pumps stay primed, and I haven't had time lately to work on it.

 

[pickles]

Huh I forgot about that thread, I even posted in it several times

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Huh I forgot about that thread, I even posted in it several times

Yup... you did

Like I said it has changed a bit, bit I still think it can work.
Are you hard plumbing lines or using hoses?

Right now, my temporary stand is scaffolding.

 

[pickles]

I'm hard plumbing it with two exceptions. The pumps I bought have 3/4" hose connections on them so i'll have short sections of hose connecting to the ss pipe; and from plate chiller to fermenter, much like yours from V8. I am going to attach a section of 1/2" ss tube to the end of that hose (like a racking cane), stick it in the BK for last 5-10 min to sterilize chiller and whirlpool the move it to fermenter and chill. Most of the plumbing is 1/2" SS tubing and Swag-lok fittings. The valves I found have 1/2" swag-lok connections on them so it's pretty convenient. I've been gathering this crap for nearly a year!