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Critique my Am IPA PM recipe!

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JuGordon

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This is my first partial mash recipe. I'm going for a high ABV, med/high IBU, and a darker color.

3.5lb Brewers Malt 2-Row (Breiss)
1.5 lb Pale Ale Malt 2-Row (Breiss)
1lb Caramel 60L (Breiss)
.5 lb Carapils (Breiss)
4 lb Plain Light DME (Breiss)
8gm Gypsum

1 oz Columbus (60 min)
.7 oz Chinook (30 min)
.4 oz Chinook (20 min)
.4 oz Chinook (10 min)
.5 oz Chinook (Aroma Steep)

Strike Water: 163 F
Mash temp: 150 F for 75 minutes
Batch Sparge

Any comments, critiques, or tips would be appreciated. Thanks!
 

reinstone

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I might drop the crystal and use a small amount of black patent. The crystal at that percentage will cause a little too much sweetness in my opinion......a common mistake I used to make....cut the crystal in half if you can.
 
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JuGordon

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What kind of flavor contribution will the black patent give? Or is that for the color? I brewed an extract IPA a few months back and it had 1 LB of crystal 60l. I thought that it turned out pretty good. Maybe I could cut out half the crystal. Do you think I should replace that .5 lb with something else?
 

woknblues

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Forgive me for asking, but why not just go all grain all the way? I am used to PM as being LME or DME with steeping grains. Once you are into the 2-row, you might as well 100% all grain. Am I wrong here?

I also agree with reinstone for my taste, but you don't state mouthfeel in your objectives. I am finding little enjoyment with crystal malt these days. I might go ahead and drop it, and just do a lb of carapils to get a bit more body, also great head retention.. You could add an ounce or two of debittered black or midnight wheat for color at the end of your mash..

8lb Brewers Malt 2-Row (Breiss) or so, didn't run the numbers
1.5 lb Pale Ale Malt 2-Row (Breiss)
1 lb Carapils (Breiss)
2 oz of debittered black at end of mash
8gm Gypsum

1 oz Columbus (60 min)
.7 oz Chinook (30 min)
.4 oz Chinook (20 min)
.4 oz Chinook (10 min)
.5 oz Chinook (Aroma Steep)
 

woknblues

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Also, if you like more sweetness, as you state you made one with a lb before, you could also experiment with raising your mash temps from 150, to say, 153-155 or so. You will pull out a bit of fermentable sugar from your wort to stay in the body and add to the residual sweetness and maltiness.....

BTW, you will probably make a fine beer anyway. It's all personal taste. I do like and agree with your take on a more malt balanced IPA rather than just another crazy hop bomb. Hope it turns out great!
 
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JuGordon

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Forgive me for asking, but why not just go all grain all the way? I am used to PM as being LME or DME with steeping grains. Once you are into the 2-row, you might as well 100% all grain. Am I wrong here?
I don't think so. I just don't have a large enough kettle to do a full boil. I just want to get an intro into mashing. This would be my first time.

I also agree with reinstone for my taste, but you don't state mouthfeel in your objectives.
I want a medium bodied beer. I just had DFH 90 min IPA (I know it's an DIPA) it was too thick for my taste.

I am finding little enjoyment with crystal malt these days. I might go ahead and drop it, and just do a lb of carapils to get a bit more body, also great head retention.. You could add an ounce or two of debittered black or midnight wheat for color at the end of your mash..
What is it that you don't like about crystal these days?

you could also experiment with raising your mash temps from 150, to say, 153-155 or so. You will pull out a bit of fermentable sugar from your wort to stay in the body and add to the residual sweetness and maltiness.....
154 would give me a nice medium body, correct?

BTW, you will probably make a fine beer anyway. It's all personal taste. I do like and agree with your take on a more malt balanced IPA rather than just another crazy hop bomb. Hope it turns out great!
Thanks and thanks! I think it will be a delicious brew and I can tweak it as time goes on. Thanks for the input!
 

woknblues

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What is it that you don't like about crystal these days?
!
I don't know. Something just kinda turned me off of caramel in beer. Thing is, I really like malty beer, but I find the taste of caramel to be often too forward if not used sparingly. That is why I have turned slightly to increasing my mash temps to retain sugars after fermentation, and also dropping ABV a bit. (really love beer, don't really love getting "faced" much)
 
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JuGordon

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I have turned slightly to increasing my mash temps to retain sugars after fermentation, and also dropping ABV a bit. (really love beer, don't really love getting "faced" much)
Sounds cool. I've had a few "dry" beers recently and am looking to experiement in that direction soon. Thanks for the help!
 
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Won't comment on the grain bill as it seems you are working on that already and I don't want to muddy the situation.

The usual comment for IPA recipes is "more hops!" In this case I would agree. Columbus and Chinook are both great IPA hops, and you're getting a wonderful charge of bitterness from the 1oz 60min addition of columbus. I understand that you want med/high and not uberduperhoppy but I would still recommend adding more hops in the last 15 minutes of your boil. Preferably in the last 5 minutes. Don't worry about the IBUs, just go for that delicious hop flavor and aroma. And dry hop! The first thing I do when I get a pint of IPA is stick my nose in it because the aroma is half the battle for me.

But as others have said, either way your beer will be swell.

(And I have to agree- if you are just using 4lbs of dried malt extract, why not just go all-grain?) EDIT- reread your earlier comment, sorry for missing it. Good luck with your first PM, if it goes well then you are 95% of the way to going all grain if you want.
 
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JuGordon

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Won't comment on the grain bill as it seems you are working on that already and I don't want to muddy the situation.
What would you suggest. The more input the better.

The usual comment for IPA recipes is "more hops!" In this case I would agree. Columbus and Chinook are both great IPA hops, and you're getting a wonderful charge of bitterness from the 1oz 60min addition of columbus. I understand that you want med/high and not uberduperhoppy but I would still recommend adding more hops in the last 15 minutes of your boil. Preferably in the last 5 minutes. Don't worry about the IBUs, just go for that delicious hop flavor and aroma. And dry hop! The first thing I do when I get a pint of IPA is stick my nose in it because the aroma is half the battle for me.
I figured that the .5 oz aroma steep would do for the aroma. You think I should do another .5 or 1 oz at the 5 min mark and dry hop with 1 oz whole leaf for 7 days?
 

bobbrews

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Because they use a significant amount of extract, Partial Mash & Extract beers very rarely have issues with body. The 2-row used to create the extract was already mashed with carapils, likely at 154 F. Therefore, I wouldn't worry about any issues related to body... or using carapils for head retention, which will also be a null issue.

To offset limited fermentability and boost dryness, I always like to use a bit of corn sugar with my Partial Mash or Extract IPAs. The corn sugar takes the place of a portion of the DME. And if using any mashing grains, I mash them at about 146 F for 60-90 minutes. This will, in a sense, "equalize" your theoretical mash temp to about 151 F, being that you have no control over the extract's fermentability. Even when mashing at these low temps, thin body is not usually a problem when a decent amount of extract is used.

What's more, Partial Mash and Extract homebrewers are usually trying to make their IPA's as light as possible (not dark) in order to compare them to commercial examples. This is more difficult than it proves when using extract with dark specialty grains and a partial boil. In reality, you should not have a problem hitting 8 SRM with a very pale, simple grist. But when you start adding 1 lb. of C60, boiling all of your extract at the start of your boil, topping off a highly concentrated partial boil... well then you are likely to hit 10-11 SRM just because of these simple amendments. I highly recommend full volume boils for IPAs.

Yeast choice for IPAs using extract is also important. I like WLP090 because of it's awesome attenuation and flocculation. But whether you use WLP007, WLP001, Wyeast 1272 or 1056, you WILL need a yeast starter for an IPA registering in at 1.070 OG. If you don't want to make a yeast starter, then plan on your IPA stalling at 1.020 FG or higher.

I would definitely recommend simplifying your grist for better results, but your hop schedule would benefit from major revamping:

5# 2-row Pale (or a darker English 2-row... or a combination)
4# Light DME
3/4# Corn Sugar
1/2# Crystal 60

0.75 oz. Columbus @ 60
0.25 oz. Chinook @ 60
1.00 oz. Columbus @ 10
0.50 oz. Chinook @ 10
1.00 oz. Columbus @ aroma steep
0.50 oz. Chinook @ aroma steep
1.25 oz. Columbus @ dryhop
1.75 oz. Chinook @ dryhop

WLP090 or WLP007 yeast starter

That's 7 oz. total hops (4 oz. Columbus & 3 oz. Chinook). You can also use Centennial if you don't want Columbus. This will register as 8 SRM, but through maillard reactions created by the boiled extract, you should end up with something more like 9.5 SRM. You could always boil your mashed wort 30 minutes longer for 90 minutes total before adding your DME. This will effectively darken the wort a bit more and set you at about 10.5 to 11 SRM, all other things considered.
 
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JuGordon

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Wow, great critique! I believe that I will go with your grist suggestions. I was unaware of the carapils mashed in the DME. I just looked it up and you are correct.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I add the DME at the end of the boil, I won't have to worry much about extra darkening of the wort, correct?

As far as the hops go, I want to make Chinook my prominent hop as far as flavor and aroma. I've read about the characteristics of them and I want to know how it tastes/smells to me so that I can better utilize it in later brews. That being said, do you think I should just substitute the Columbus with Chinook for the late additions, or just get rid of the late Columbus altogether?

Thanks again.
 

bobbrews

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but if I add the DME at the end of the boil, I won't have to worry much about extra darkening of the wort, correct?
That's true. I would recommend adding it all at flameout in this case. Adding all of it (or some of it) at boil start may possibly help you get a point darker, but flavor means more to me than color.

As far as the hops go, I want to make Chinook my prominent hop as far as flavor and aroma. I've read about the characteristics of them and I want to know how it tastes/smells to me so that I can better utilize it in later brews. That being said, do you think I should just substitute the Columbus with Chinook for the late additions, or just get rid of the late Columbus altogether?
I think you should use them both, or at least 2 hops minimum for some level of complexity. Chinook has musky grapefruit and pine. It's not all that dissimilar from Columbus, which has added dank marijuana notes and less pine. If you want more of those flavors, add more during the aroma steep & dryhop.
 
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JuGordon

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Thanks bobbrews. I'm going to brew this bad boy up. I'll let yall know how it comes out. Thanks, dudes!
 
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