Critique, Advice - Belgian Stout

[brew-bandit]

Hello all,

First I am a new home brewer and this will be batch number 6 and my 3rd all grain. I would like to brew a Belgian stout which is inspired by Allagash Black. Their website states it is made with 2-row, chocolate malt, roasted barley, torrified wheat, oats and dark candi sugar so that is my starting point.

I am not trying to make a clone just a good beer!!

Here is the plan.

This will be a BIAB full 5 gallon batch.


11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 77.2 %
12.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 2 5.3 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.5 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.5 %
8.0 oz Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 5 3.5 %
1 lbs Candi Sugar, Dark (275.0 SRM) Sugar 6 7.0 %
1.00 oz Tradition [5.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 18.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Tettnang (Tettnang Tettnager) [5.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 8.1 IBUs
1.0 pkg Trappist Ale (White Labs #WLP500) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 -


Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.076 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.4 %
Bitterness: 27.0 IBUs
Est Color: 46.8 SRM

Questions are:

How does the recipe look? I have only done SMaSH as all gain so far so I am unsure on the amounts of chocolate, roasted malts and wheat and oats.

What about the hops selected?

Do I need a protein rest when using oats that I read is recommended?

Should I harvest yeast from a couple of bottles or will the WLP500 (starter of course) work?

Thank you all in advance!

 

[didinho]

What about the hops selected?

Do I need a protein rest when using oats that I read is recommended?

you should do a protein rest, otherwise oats will probably give you some chill haze. and I'd avoid the 15 minutes tettnag, no need for aroma hop in a stout

 

[RM-MN]

With the amount of dark grains in your grain bill, I doubt that you would be able to see far enough into that dark beer to notice any chill haze. I'd skip the protein rest as a step to complicate the brew day without noticeable benefit.

My taste buds would recoil from the flavor of that much roasted barley but you may like it. Were it me doing that beer, I would probably use somewhere around 6 ounces of the roasted.

 

[helterscelter]

you should do a protein rest, otherwise oats will probably give you some chill haze. and I'd avoid the 15 minutes tettnag, no need for aroma hop in a stout

what exactly is a protein rest?

 

[brew-bandit]

what exactly is a protein rest?

It is used when you have moderately modified or unmodified grains like unmalted wheat and oats. It allows the proteins to break down further so when you get to saccrification rest you get better conversion.

I have decided not to do one based on further reading in "How to Brew." Palmer only recommends a protein rest if the grain bill has >25% of unmalted or moderately modified grains/adjunts. I am only at ~7%.

Thanks for all the inputs everyone.

 

[brew-bandit]

With the amount of dark grains in your grain bill, I doubt that you would be able to see far enough into that dark beer to notice any chill haze. I'd skip the protein rest as a step to complicate the brew day without noticeable benefit.

My taste buds would recoil from the flavor of that much roasted barley but you may like it. Were it me doing that beer, I would probably use somewhere around 6 ounces of the roasted.

Thanks. You caught an error. I had intended only 8 oz of roasted barley not 12 oz. I backed it off to 8 oz. Must have been fiddling with BeerSmith and forgot to return it back to 8 oz.

Thanks again!

 

[m00ps]

Nice, I was about to ask if this was inspired by Allagash black. I've tried to make something close to it and it turned otu pretty well. I noticed you even have the torrified wheat which is listed as an ingredient on their website

My tip would be to switch the yeast to either WLP530 or WLP550 (or another Belgian strain, maybe even WY3711? It'll make it pretty dry but with a slick smouthfeel) I've found the Chimay yeast is great in dubbels and Belgian Strong dark ales, but its just way too fruity and sweet for something like a stout. The other 2 yeasts will attenuate a bit better IME and give you some spice to compliment the roasted grains. I've tried almost all of Allagash's beers and their house yeast is definitely more similar to WLP530 or WLP550 than WLP500

My Belgian stout was actually made with Wyeasts seasonal "Belgian Stout" yeast. Supposedly, its pretty similar to a saison yeast which makes sense to me. You dont want a ton of fruity esters in a stout

 

[BowAholic]

www.brewtoad.com/recipes/allagash-black-clone-mk-1
-there are also recipes in Beersmith... just for comparison

 

[brew-bandit]

Nice, I was about to ask if this was inspired by Allagash black. I've tried to make something close to it and it turned otu pretty well. I noticed you even have the torrified wheat which is listed as an ingredient on their website

My tip would be to switch the yeast to either WLP530 or WLP550 (or another Belgian strain, maybe even WY3711? It'll make it pretty dry but with a slick smouthfeel) I've found the Chimay yeast is great in dubbels and Belgian Strong dark ales, but its just way too fruity and sweet for something like a stout. The other 2 yeasts will attenuate a bit better IME and give you some spice to compliment the roasted grains. I've tried almost all of Allagash's beers and their house yeast is definitely more similar to WLP530 or WLP550 than WLP500

My Belgian stout was actually made with Wyeasts seasonal "Belgian Stout" yeast. Supposedly, its pretty similar to a saison yeast which makes sense to me. You dont want a ton of fruity esters in a stout

Thanks for the inputs. I selected this yeast because it was the only Belgian style yeast the store had at the time. I am really itching to brew so my I just said hell with it. Your recommendations would be more appropriate and I may give them a shot on the next round.

I plan on refining the recipe and being a new brewer I like experimenting to learn. I think the worst I will achieve with this recipe is a drinkable beer, so I can live with that. And I will get to compare it with my next version!

 

[brew-bandit]

www.brewtoad.com/recipes/allagash-black-clone-mk-1
-there are also recipes in Beersmith... just for comparison

Thanks! I saw this one the other day as well. Looks good but I feel like a little creative experimentation. Maybe I will do this one later and compare.

 

[brew-bandit]

Thanks again for all the inputs and I ended up using many. I also bought a bottle of Allagash Black and got some ideas based on drinking it.

The beer tasted great and think it came out as I hoped but won't know till the yeast is done. One thing I have noticed is that the krausen does not seem to be as creamy as my other 2 all grains but those were pale ale SMaSH. It also seems like the krausen has already risen and fallen but vigorous fermentation is still going on.

Here is what I ended up with

11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (1.5 SRM) Grain 1 79.3 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 2 3.6 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.6 %
8.0 oz Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 4 3.6 %
6.0 oz Roasted Barley (676.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.7 %
1.00 oz Tradition [5.80 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 6 20.2 IBUs
1 lbs Candi Sugar, Amber (75.0 SRM) Sugar 7 7.2 %
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 8 -
1.0 pkg Trappist Ale (White Labs #WLP500) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 -


Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.067 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.4 %
Bitterness: 20.2 IBUs
Est Color: 33.8 SRM

Measured Original Gravity: 1.062 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.8 %
Calories: 206.7 kcal/12oz

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks again for all the inputs and I ended up using many. I also bought a bottle of Allagash Black and got some ideas based on drinking it.

The beer tasted great and think it came out as I hoped but won't know till the yeast is done. One thing I have noticed is that the krausen does not seem to be as creamy as my other 2 all grains but those were pale ale SMaSH. It also seems like the krausen has already risen and fallen but vigorous fermentation is still going on.

Here is what I ended up with

11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (1.5 SRM) Grain 1 79.3 %
8.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 2 3.6 %
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.6 %
8.0 oz Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 4 3.6 %
6.0 oz Roasted Barley (676.0 SRM) Grain 5 2.7 %
1.00 oz Tradition [5.80 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 6 20.2 IBUs
1 lbs Candi Sugar, Amber (75.0 SRM) Sugar 7 7.2 %
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 8 -
1.0 pkg Trappist Ale (White Labs #WLP500) [35.49 ml] Yeast 9 -


Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.067 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.4 %
Bitterness: 20.2 IBUs
Est Color: 33.8 SRM

Measured Original Gravity: 1.062 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.8 %
Calories: 206.7 kcal/12oz

I think you can blame the differences of the krausen on the flaked oats. The oats have oils that are reported to kill the heading on the beer so that should affect the krausen too.

 

[brew-bandit]

I think you can blame the differences of the krausen on the flaked oats. The oats have oils that are reported to kill the heading on the beer so that should affect the krausen too.

Did not know that oats had that effect make sense. Thanks for the insight. Can't wait to try this beer.

 

[brew-bandit]

So here is how this experiment turned out.

I added too much water to top it off at the end so it didn't turn out as I hoped. Overall the flavors I wanted were there and good but weak and so was the body. Overall everyone that tried it says it had good flavor but it was just too thin.

I am going to brew this again but not add so much water.

 

[m00ps]

I would eliminate the candi sugar. Those are traditionally used in belgians to dry tthe beer out which si the exact opposite you are going for with a stout. Also, what was your mash temp?

 

[brew-bandit]

My target was 156 but by my notes I hit more of 154.

WTR to the candi sugar, the beer that inspired this creation claims to use it so if the second batch doesn't work then I will give it a shot.