Crafting the Quintessential Rochefort 10 Recipe to End all Rochefort 10 Recipes

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Evan!

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Alright, well, I've seen some talk about Rochefort here and elsewhere, but no definitive recipe. Maybe someone has a BYO clone somewhere that I don't know about, and if you do, please post it.

I checked the babblebelt forum and there were a couple of recipes. Here's my stab at it. I know belgian pilsner malt would be preferable, but, damnit, I've got a 55lb sack of maris otter, and I'm gonna use it. So, join together with me, HBT'ers, and let's perfect this recipe!

Here's my first stab at it, using malt and hops that I already have:

Rochefort 10

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

18-E Belgian Strong Ale, Belgian Dark Strong Ale

Min OG: 1.075 Max OG: 1.132
Min IBU: 15 Max IBU: 35
Min Clr: 14 Max Clr: 20 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 13.75
Anticipated OG: 1.100 Plato: 23.71
Anticipated SRM: 30.2
Anticipated IBU: 35.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 5.88 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.085 SG 20.41 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Tinseth
Tinseth Concentration Factor: 1.30


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
40.0 5.50 lbs. Gleneagle's Maris Otter Pale Great Britain 1.038 5
36.4 5.00 lbs. Briess DME- Extra Light America 1.046 8
7.3 1.00 lbs. Candi Sugar (dark) Generic 1.046 275
3.6 0.50 lbs. Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt 1.033 2
3.6 0.50 lbs. Corn Sugar Generic 1.046 0
3.6 0.50 lbs. Flaked Barley America 1.032 2
3.6 0.50 lbs. Special B Malt Belgian 1.030 120
1.8 0.25 lbs. Malto Dextrin North America 1.030 0

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.00 oz. Goldings - E.K. Whole 6.00 32.6 60 min.
0.25 oz. Spalter Select Whole 5.00 1.7 15 min.
0.25 oz. Spalter Select Whole 5.00 1.0 8 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.40 Oz Coriander Seed Spice 5 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP500 Trappist Ale






 
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I'm no expert about forming recipes, but keep this thread GOING. Let us know how the end result of what forms here turns out. I LOVE rochefort 10, big fan of 8 too, but 10 is easily my favorite. And, I'd love to make it if the recipe that forms here is right. In fact, I'll probably try it myself, especially if two variations form in this thread.
 
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Evan!

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I'm gonna try to keep it going, but I need some input from others. I've never done a trappist before. The closest I've done was a sort of session abbey brune ale, but this is entirely different. So I just need the input from all yous guys.
 
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Evan!

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Also, one of the babblebelt forum recipes listed "white sugar, dark sugar and wheat starch" as sugars that should be added. I have no idea what that really means. I guess I could look for wheat starch, but..."white sugar"? Like refined? I think not...not in MY beer. So I added half a pound of corn sugar. I wonder if that's too much.

Another recipe called for flaked corn (I subbed flaked barley) and "carafa speziela dehusked". Any idea what that second one is, and what it'd be used for?
 
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Evan!

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I think I might also add some grains of paradise. Does anyone know when to add them and how much might be appropriate?
 

gERgMan

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"Beer Captured" has the recipe for Rochefort 10 clone.

I actually just brewed a Rochefort 8 clone a week and a half ago. To be honest with you, I thought the Rochefort recipe from "Beer Captured" was a bit too much in terms of different ingredients. From what I can gather and know about the monks that brew this, simplicity is at the heart of it. 2 malts, 2 sugars, 2 hops, 2 yeast, etc. The Rochefort 6,8, & 10 differ only in the combinations of these (probably in 2's one could guess).
Looking at your recipe, for authenticity I would recommend going with Belgian pilsner malt. I am not sure what the SRM is on Marris Otter, but you will get a lot of color from the candi sugar and malts, you don't want much from the base malt. Maybe somebody else can offer there advice on the difference between the two grains, I am not that experieced. If anything, try to ditch the Briess pale malt extract for something Belgian like or go all grain. I would change the hops for sure. Go with Hallertau Herbrucker and Syrian Goldings instead. Corriander should be coarsley ground, I just emptied out my pepper mill and added the corriander and ground it into a plastic bag rubberbanded to the mill. In terms of sugar, I used 1.5 lbs of Belgian Candi Sugar. From what I read and gathered, you could even go up to 2.0 lbs and forgo the dextrin and corn sugar. Keep the Special B malt, and think about adding Caramunich II malt. I used the Wyeast Trappist ale yeast. I started a 2L starter two days before this brew and pitched the whole thing while the starter was slowing down in activity. You will need a starter, and make sure the starter is at a high OG so that the yeast isn't shocked by the pitch. I had active fermentation within 4 hours of the pitch. Keep the temperature warm, if possible. I used an electric blanket on #1-2 setting to keep the fermentation temp around 75F. You want the yeast to give that distinct character to this beer that can only be had at warmer temps (do a search for trappist yeast and warm temperature to understand what I am talking about). Other than that, I am not sure how much I can offer in the hand of guidance. I am only a beginner by most standards, I just didn't take the path most beginners take--jumped ahead quite a bit.

I will try and post my recipe tomorrow.
 

dannypo

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If you want that distinct Rochefort flavor you will need to use either WLP540 or wyeast 1762. The other belgian yeasts just won't give the right ester and phenol profile.

And as for temp keep it under 70 for the first 2-3 days then let it rise to 74-76. If it gets warm early you will get way too many fusels (ask me how I know). And if you keep it low it just won't finish low enough and you won't get enough ester production.

As for recipe if you look around on some of the forums I believe Denny Conn posted a recipe of his (maybe it was a friend of his) that most who have had it say is spot on. I would leave the corriander out. I know the monks use it but the head brewer admits that it is in such small amounts that even he can't taste it.
 

jager

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Your going to need upwards of 15 to 20% sucrose (invert sugar, glucose syrup, ect... would work too but they'll cost you more)


you will never go from 1.096 to 1.011 with only 3.6% corn sugar!
 

Glibbidy

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The ingredients for this beer aside from the yeast, are very simple.
Malt: pilsener, and crystal
Hops: Styrian goldings, and Hallertau
Yeast: Rochefort
Spices: Coriander (teeny tiny amount)

more details:
OG=1.096
abv= 11.3%
IBU 27
Primary fermentation. Pitch at 68f, allow to rise to 73 (7 days)
Secondary fermentation: 3 days at 46f
refermentation at bottling.:rockin:

yeast, yes a big a$$ starter, prolly, best from a fresh bottle.:rolleyes:
 
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Evan!

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dannypo said:
If you want that distinct Rochefort flavor you will need to use either WLP540 or wyeast 1762. The other belgian yeasts just won't give the right ester and phenol profile.
I checked the 1762 description and it says it has low ester profile. The WLP500 that I have in my fridge says, "From one of the few remaining Trappist breweries remaining in the world, this yeast produces the distinctive fruitiness and plum characteristics. Excellent yeast for high gravity beers, Belgian ales, dubbels and trippels.

So why wouldn't the WLP500 work? I haven't done any belgian styles outside of dubbels and wits, so I'm no expert, but I figured that a trappist yeast would be a good choice when making a trappist ale. I also checked AHS's site. They have a Rochefort 10 kit, and the default yeast that comes with it is...WLP500. So what am I missing? Oh. This. So the 500 is from Chimay and 550 is from Rochefort. Since I already have the 500 in my fridge, is it really going to matter that much?
 
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Evan!

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jager said:
Your going to need upwards of 15 to 20% sucrose (invert sugar, glucose syrup, ect... would work too but they'll cost you more)


you will never go from 1.096 to 1.011 with only 3.6% corn sugar!
Sucrose? In what form? You mean, table sugar? How much corn sugar should I be using, if 3.6% is too low? I just don't want to end up with that cidery taste that comes from using too much sugar.
 

zoebisch01

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Evan! said:
So why wouldn't the WLP500 work? I haven't done any belgian styles outside of dubbels and wits, so I'm no expert, but I figured that a trappist yeast would be a good choice when making a trappist ale. I also checked AHS's site. They have a Rochefort 10 kit, and the default yeast that comes with it is...WLP500. So what am I missing? Oh. This. So the 500 is from Chimay and 550 is from Rochefort. Since I already have the 500 in my fridge, is it really going to matter that much?
It might work, but keep in mind that many of these recipes are quite simple and the yeast is one of the biggest factors in the finished product, that and process. My suggestion would be to order the yeast. You are going this far, you should go all the way...especially since it is a clone.

You may have listened to it, but there is a great podcast on trappist Ales . That information is really excellent.
 
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Evan!

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So, I guess I'm gonna have to order new stuff. That's okay.

Here's the new recipe. Thanks for the help, all.

Oh, so, okay, I have a vial of the WLP500. Anyone have any suggestions on what to do with it?

Rochefort 10

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

18-E Belgian Strong Ale, Belgian Dark Strong Ale

Min OG: 1.075 Max OG: 1.132
Min IBU: 15 Max IBU: 35
Min Clr: 14 Max Clr: 20 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.00 Wort Size (Gal): 5.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 13.50
Anticipated OG: 1.096 Plato: 22.83
Anticipated SRM: 32.7
Anticipated IBU: 29.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 5.88 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.081 SG 19.64 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Tinseth
Tinseth Concentration Factor: 1.30

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
44.4 6.00 lbs. Pilsener Belgium 1.037 2
29.6 4.00 lbs. Briess DME- Extra Light America 1.046 8
7.4 1.00 lbs. Candi Sugar (dark) Generic 1.046 275
7.4 1.00 lbs. Corn Sugar Generic 1.046 0
7.4 1.00 lbs. Special B Malt Belgian 1.030 120
3.7 0.50 lbs. Aromatic Malt Belgium 1.036 25

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.75 oz. Styrian Goldings Whole 5.25 25.7 60 min.
0.50 oz. Hallertauer Pellet 4.00 3.0 15 min.
0.25 oz. Hallertauer Pellet 4.00 0.6 5 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.20 Oz Coriander Seed Spice 5 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP540 Belgian Ale IV


 

jager

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cidery taste does not come from using sugar. Duvel doesn't taste like cider and its nothing but pilsner and sugar (somewhere around 15-18%) if I remember correctly from BLAM.

All of those big Belgians use huge amounts of sugar it is mandatory for a low final gravity.


white granular sugar from the store will work as its going to be cheaper than corn sugar from the homebrew shop.
 

zoebisch01

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Evan! said:
Oh, so, okay, I have a vial of the WLP500. Anyone have any suggestions on what to do with it?
I would make a Dubbel with base malt (90 - 95%), perhaps some Caramel or Munich and about 1lb of invert sugar. Balance IBU with some nobles, and let the ferment temps ride up on the last few days of primary. This should give you a really good idea what the 500 produces.
 

zoebisch01

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jager said:
cidery taste does not come from using sugar. Duvel doesn't taste like cider and its nothing but pilsner and sugar (somewhere around 15-18%) if I remember correctly from BLAM.

All of those big Belgians use huge amounts of sugar it is mandatory for a low final gravity.

white granular sugar from the store will work as its going to be cheaper than corn sugar from the homebrew shop.
From what I understand is that most of the breweries there are using invert sugar which has been altered by heat treatment and the addition of acid. This does make a difference from using raw cane sugar. I made some for one of my brews. It is in the bottle conditioning phase atm...but initial tastes are really promising. I think the guy who wrote BLAM is on that podcast (linked above), and I am fairly certain he mentions it is invert sugar, not straight table sugar?
 
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Evan!

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Well, the bigger my grain bill gets, the longer the boil needs to be. My boil time as shown is just the portion of the boil after the bittering hops addition. I usually boil off some liquid prior to adding the bittering hops when I'm doing AG or big mashes in general.
 

gERgMan

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Rochefort 8 Recipe (derived from several sources, so it is really an orginal):

-10 lb. Belgian 2-row Pilsner Malt
-0.5 lb. German Carafa II Black Malt
-1.5 lb. Belgian Caramunich Malt
-0.5 lb. Briess Crystal Malt, 120L (was suppose to be Special B, LHBS was out)
-10 oz. Belgian Candi Sugar (0L)
-1 lb. Belgian Candi Sugar (275L)
-0.4 oz. Coarsely ground corriander seed
-1 tsp. Irish Moss

-1 oz. Styrian Golding pellets (bitter)
-1 oz. Hersbrucker pellets (bitter)
-0.25 oz. Hallertau Leaf (bitter)
-0.75 oz. Hallertau Leaf (Flavor, Aroma)

-Wyeast 3787 (Trappist), 2 Liter starter (OG=1.080) grown for two days

I kept the primary fermentation temp around 70-75F, so we will see the fusel turnout due to this. I as well boiled for 30 min. before adding bittering hops. It is actually still in the primary, I will transfer this weekend (will be two weeks come this weekend) since it was still bubbling every 20-30 sec. as of Tuesday.

As I was brewing it, the color looked dead on with the Rochefort I was drinking at the time. Also, the aroma coming off of this brew as it was going into the primary was great! Reminded me of the Rochefort.
 

zoebisch01

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gERgMan said:
I kept the primary fermentation temp around 70-75F, so we will see the fusel turnout due to this.
That is the real trick with these, wether one is cloning or just trying to replicate the process. The catch is that they pitch huge amounts of yeast and make no attempts to raise the fermentation temperature. The exothermic reaction takes it up I think it is to the 80's (F) by roughly day three, with the ambient being somewhere in the low 60's. I am convinced it is near impossible to do this on a homebrew scale.

What I always do is leave the bulk of the primary ferment at around mid 60's, as I see it start to slow down bring it to a 70 °F place, and then finally raise it up really warm as it is just finishing off. I have never had a problem with fusels and it achieves exactly what I am looking for.
 

jager

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The yeast produce invertase so I don't see a need to break down sucrose before giving it to them.

About the invert sugar. I seriously doubt they are using it as it costs more than regular old sucrose. Those monks are focused on producing a quality product at the lowest cost possible.


I'd be willing to be that if the monks were in the US they would be using corn syrup.



But then again, invert sugar does taste pretty good straight out of the bucket so their might be something to it.
 

gERgMan

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Glibbidy said:
The ingredients for this beer aside from the yeast, are very simple.
Malt: pilsener, and crystal
Hops: Styrian goldings, and Hallertau
Yeast: Rochefort
Spices: Coriander (teeny tiny amount) :
I am not sure I understand the thinking behind the inverted sugar addition. Like somebody had said, these monks strive for simplicity and attaining the best beer from the few ingredients they use (Pilsner and malt). Every recipe I have seen goes with plenty of Belgian Candi Sugar it seems to make up for the sugar in solution. Is the inverted sugar a lack-of-funds substitute?

The flavor profile of this beer will most certainly come from the yeast used and the fermentation temp. I know there won't be any harm in using the other style of yeast mentioned, but it will be unique, not necessarily a Rochefort dead-on. Not to say it won't be good.
 

zoebisch01

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jager said:
The yeast produce invertase so I don't see a need to break down sucrose before giving it to them.

About the invert sugar. I seriously doubt they are using it as it costs more than regular old sucrose. Those monks are focused on producing a quality product at the lowest cost possible.


I'd be willing to be that if the monks were in the US they would be using corn syrup.



But then again, invert sugar does taste pretty good straight out of the bucket so their might be something to it.
I am not 100% certain that Rochefort is using it, but Orval is:

http://www.orval.be/an/FS_an.html ("In one and a half hours, the wort takes on an amber colour. It is at this point that white candy sugar is added in the kettle.")

From what I have read and gathered, is that inverting the sugar beforehand is reported to help the yeast. I have used table sugar and invert sugar, and I feel there is a difference in the final product. BBR had a good experiment on the various types of sugar as adjuncts here
 

Ryanh1801

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man if i could brew a good Rochefort 8, im not sure that I would ever brew anything else. Please post up how it turns out.
 
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Evan!

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Well, I needed bottle caps and star san. Somehow that little order turned into the big Rochefort order. They didn't have Hallertau hops, though, so I'll have to substitute with something else. Oh well. No big deal. Liberty might work. Wish me luck! I think I'll be brewing this soon, if all goes well.
 

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So you're brewing it today? I hope it turns out well, both for you and for selfish reasons ;) I want to brew it! I'd love to recreate the 10. My Roch 8 is in the primary, its good so far but maybe a little chocolatey, hopefully it will give way to the o/flavors more. Good Luck.
 
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Evan!

Evan!

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landhoney said:
So you're brewing it today? I hope it turns out well, both for you and for selfish reasons ;) I want to brew it! I'd love to recreate the 10. My Roch 8 is in the primary, its good so far but maybe a little chocolatey, hopefully it will give way to the o/flavors more. Good Luck.
No, no, I placed the order today. I'll probably brew sometime over the next few weeks.
 

Ryanh1801

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landhoney said:
So you're brewing it today? I hope it turns out well, both for you and for selfish reasons ;) I want to brew it! I'd love to recreate the 10. My Roch 8 is in the primary, its good so far but maybe a little chocolatey, hopefully it will give way to the o/flavors more. Good Luck.
Could you post the recipe?
 

Torchiest

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Damn, how did I miss this thread the first time around? I used the WLP500 Trappist for my first attempt at a belgian, and it was really estery. The WLP530 Abbey Ale that I used for my second attempt was much nicer, in my opinion. Never used the WLP540 Belgian IV. It's probably too late, but why not use honey or brown sugar instead of corn sugar? That's what the first trappist recipe I tried called for.
 
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Evan!

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Torchiest said:
Damn, how did I miss this thread the first time around? I used the WLP500 Trappist for my first attempt at a belgian, and it was really estery. The WLP530 Abbey Ale that I used for my second attempt was much nicer, in my opinion. Never used the WLP540 Belgian IV. It's probably too late, but why not use honey or brown sugar instead of corn sugar? That's what the first trappist recipe I tried called for.
I ordered the White Labs Trappist Ale yeast the first time around. Then the HBT'er showed me a site that lists the origins of commercial yeast...and so I ordered Wyeast's abbey II today, which is from Rochefort.

I also ordered a pound of clear belgian candi sugar to use in this recipe as well.

I might try some honey too. I think the combo of dark candi syrup and clear candi crystals will get me most of the way there, though.
 

Torchiest

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Actually, for future reference, and you could certainly add to it if you want, but we have a list of a bunch of yeasts and their breweries of origin on the brewing wiki:

Known Commercial Yeasts

Oh, and looky here:

Rochefort:
White Labs WLP540
Wyeast 1762

So both of your choices were correct. I used both clear and dark belgian candy sugar in my Trois Pistoles clone, with fantastic results. I actually didn't use any brown sugar, honey, or dextrose in that one, for what it's worth. I've never tried any of the Rocheforts though, so I don't really know what I'm talking about. :cross:
 
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Evan!

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Update...

As some of you know, the Roche 10 clone v1.0 brewsession went well, and it ended up blowing off something wonderful.

SWMBO and I drank a real Roche 10 the night before I brewed, and I'm glad we did, because I was able to compare the aroma of the offgassing to the real deal. I gotta say, it was VERY similar. Fruity esters out the ASS! This is gonna rock, methinks. I'll keep this thread updated.

I've been on vacation since Thursday - it was still bubbling when I left - but I got back early this morning, and it seems to be done. I'll take a grav reading and taste sample tonight, and report back.

Giggity giggity giggity goo! Soldier on!
 
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Evan!

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aging well. Doesn't really taste like r10, but it's a good, weird BDSA nonetheless.
 

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I had the pleasure of having this beer with about 1.5 years of age on it. A fruit bomb - but in a good way, as in all yeast derived. Pushes a lot of cherry. Alcohol is quite restrained, which is how I like it. I found commercial Roche 10 to have a harsh solvent feel to it.

Evan did a great job with this one, even if it doesn't taste like the real thing.
 

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Has anyone made their own dark candi syrup? How many pounds of sugar will I need to make 3 pounds of candi? Am I better off buying the stuff or making it?
 
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