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SAMPLER

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I recently got approval to mount my 2 tap tower onto my kitchen counter. I am planning on running an insulate tube up from the basement and through the lower kitchen cabinet to pull this off. I really looking for some input and feedback from those who have thought of or have pulled this off.

I will be using a standard Sanyo (2) corny keg Refrigerator in the basement.

Any thoughts or suggestion for getting this started.

Cheers,
Dana
 
i built a long draw system that has 4 taps in the kitchen, and a keg chiller in the basement below... what exactly do you want to know?
 
i built a long draw system that has 4 taps in the kitchen, and a keg chiller in the basement below... what exactly do you want to know?

Ah I thought I was the only one who did this. Do you chill your lines auger? I don't and I don't have any pour issues either.

I use the bevseal line and have line in that amounts of like ~16-22ft for 4 taps if I remember right. The longer two lines are for higher carbed brews and the shorter are for standard and low carb
 
Lets start with the basics first as I know nothing about what I'm about to do. I'm looking at roughly 12-14 feet to run between the keg and the faucet.

What type and size line should I run?
Do I set up a 3-4 inch PVC pipe and then insulate with foil?
Do I need to run a fan for cooling?
How much of a variance can I expect when dialing in keg pressure?

Any pictures you may have would be super helpful.

Thank you!
 
Lets start with the basics first as I know nothing about what I'm about to do. I'm looking at roughly 12-14 feet to run between the keg and the faucet.

What type and size line should I run?
Do I set up a 3-4 inch PVC pipe and then insulate with foil?
Do I need to run a fan for cooling?
How much of a variance can I expect when dialing in keg pressure?

Any pictures you may have would be super helpful.

Thank you!

The line length will be determined by your carb generally. So depending on the line I would cut it long and coil it in the keezer down stairs until you figure out how long.

Here is what I did:
1. Use the bev seal line smaller ID leaves less liquid in the line between pours. Also this line has less resistance than standard 3/16 line, so it is the perfect balance between the resistance you will need and minimal liquid left in the line. I think I started with 20+ feet for each line.

2. run your lines from the taps upstairs to the basement and leave then long in the basement.

3. ziptie your beer lines together (periodically) and wrap them in 2-3 layers of insulation (I used piping insulation at HD for cheap1).

4. I think wrapped that all up with aluminum tape to reflect the sun and keep the lines from overheating.



Line Sizing:
a. get a keg with water and hook it up in the basement
b. set your psi to your desired level and hook up your line to the quick disconnect.
c. go upstairs and open the faucet, too slow? cut a foot of line, too fast? oops you screwed up and now you have to add longer lines or the swizel sticks to get more resistance.



I decided to go the cheap way first and avoid fans, glycol, etc. I am happy I did. I have no issues with pours, though I do purge the little bit left in the lines in between pours if I don't use that tap for a couple days. I recently took my set up apart to replace the lines and the lines were absolutely clear and clean, no baddies. I cleaned my lines 3 times with concentrated PBW over the course of a year,... that was it!

Miy advice is to have longer lines with more restriction and a slower pour vs. a faster pour. This gives you more flexibility in carbing your beer to various levels.


Click non my gallery for some pictures, though not great ones. I now added a second tower to my bar, lines all run up through the floor. There is a thread somewhere on here where I posted better picks of my set up, but I can't seem to find it....

Found this:
This was my first set up with larger line, I have since switched to the bevseal line and love it.

There is another thread, will try to dig it up.
 
Ah I thought I was the only one who did this. Do you chill your lines auger? I don't and I don't have any pour issues either.

i do chill the lines... basically i have a keg chiller downstairs, that feeds into a custom built mini-fridge that has the tower on it in the kitchen. the glycol running up there keeps the lines, the minifridge, and the tower itself chilled all in one loop. there is a second loop (or "zone") on the chiller that cools the kegs.


the trunk line running upstairs has 4 beer lines, 1 filtered water, and feed and return glycol. the run is about 35 feet long, 5/16" bevseal ultra lines, and the 4 beer lines have 2 feet of 1/4" choker lines between the shank and the 5/16" lines. this just provides a little restriction right at the faucet.




i made the trunk line myself- i just bought 200ft of bevseal tubing, cut it and bundled them together with electrical tape (this is easier to do with two people, as this bevseal tubing is PET plastic and likes to remain coiled...) then bought a few 6 foot sections of neoprene pipe insulation from grainger.com (1.5" or 1.75" ID i think) and pushed the tube bundle thru it.

What type and size line should I run?
Do I set up a 3-4 inch PVC pipe and then insulate with foil?
Do I need to run a fan for cooling?
How much of a variance can I expect when dialing in keg pressure?
for 10-20 feet, i would probably suggest either 3/16" (might be very slightly too small for this long of a run), or 1/4". BevSeal Ultra is really good PET plastic beer line, but its stiff though which can make it difficult to deal with, and slightly expensive. however it imparts NO taste and you can clean it with harsh chemicals (unlike vinyl) so it will last a very long time.

questions 2 and 3 depend on your particular installation. if you use a fan, you need some way to duct the air around where it needs to go, and you need somewhere to get chilled air from. if you go with chilled glycol, you can pipe it anywhere you need. i have a radiator with a small fan on it inside the minifridge that blows cold air up into the tower, and then back down into the inside of the fridge.
about keg pressure- im not exactly sure what you are asking. pressure is pressure, it doesnt matter if its in a 5 gallon keg or a 10,000 gallon tank, 15psi is the same. to dial in my gauges, i shut off the valve directly downstream of the gauge, set the pressure, and then open the valve and let everything equilize to that setting.
 
audger - you have a much longer run than my system (I think for you the glycol is absolutely necessary so you don't lose a ton of product). Nice set up!


Just as a BTW- the 3/16 bev seal line has a lot less restriction than the 3/16 bevlex line (vinyl) does. As audger pointed out it is more rigid but is an excellent barrier beverage line. Since it is barrier tubing the resistance is much lower, thus perfectly ideal for the run the poster is describing.

As I said before, my set up is similar to your intended set up (12-14 feet run). I think I had a total rise of about 10 feet then the rest of the line runs. If you plan on starting with ~20 feet per line and cutting it back until you get the right flow rate you should be good. I *think my lines vary from 20ft down to 16ft (18-20ft for lagers and hefes and 16-18 for low carb stouts, regular carb ales, etc.). I just coil up the extra in the keezer. With two of the lines I have set to run optimally on 16-18 PSI and the other two set to run optimally at 11-13psi. There is some play in the ranges for each line.

Obviously setting up glycol is an ideal set up, but I didn't want to spend the money based on the low amount of waste I experience with my setup as described (I only have an 0z or so sitting in my lines that I purge at the first pour). If they offered a glycol pump setup for $200 i could plug in (which would be an unreal deal) I would pass on it and focus that $200 on other parts of my system. A system like audger's holds a LOT of brew in the trunk lines (not sure if audger figured how much beer was in his trunk line?). So glycol is absolutely needed or you would be losing tons of brew if the lines sat for a week.
 

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