Cosmic Punch (OYL-402) by Omega Yeast Labs

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Liero

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Hi, what‘s your experience regarding attenuation? I brewed one batch and reached 84% attenuation. This seems quite high compared to the 71-75% Omega states.
 

VikeMan

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Hi, what‘s your experience regarding attenuation? I brewed one batch and reached 84% attenuation. This seems quite high compared to the 71-75% Omega states.

I haven't used Cosmic Punch, but in general, always take yeast manufacturer attenuation range statements with a grain of salt. Wort fermentability is a huge factor in attenuation, and the yeast maker doesn't know what's in your wort. There's nothing magical about the lower and upper limits stated.
 

jwhawkins81

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Kegged a NEPA yesterday that I mashed at 155 and my attenuation was 80%. I was surprised how low it finished.
 

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I forgot to update the split batch. This is the brew day recipe sheet. I had planned for it to be mostly Amarillo and El Dorado but this particular lot had a little too much onion/garlic going on so I changed to citra (as one does).

1651960986228.png



The Cosmic Punch version had a noticeable pop of fresh pineapple and passionfruit. The Brit V (1318) version is just fine but the aromas are muted a little. If I didn't know better, I'd say they are the same beer but the non-Cosmic one comes across like it's a couple months old compared to the other. The only way that I'd avoid Cosmic is if I were going for more of a dank/pine type of IPA. Juicy? Cosmic all day.

One of the more disappointing turn of events is that I put this into a local competition and it scored a 27 because the bottle the stewards pulled was the one odd bottle that was a twist off and I didn't get a good crimp on it. I NEVER reuse bottles for competitions and always open a new case but this time I wanted to clear out some of the random empties I had piling up. I have no idea how a twist off bottle got into my collection, but it's what I get for breaking protocol. I usually bottle a few extra bottles to have post-comp comparisons and they are all wonderful (and not oxidized like the 27 scoresheet suggested). Crap.
 
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Any recommendation on how much to add to the fermenter? I'm usually not worried about a boil over would rather get the fermentation benefit. Also it says something about bitterness increase if you add to the fermenter. Any experience with that?
hey, sorry, just noticed i didn't reply... unfortunately i don't have a recommendation, as i do the opposite of you: i typically only add 3-5 drops to my 22-24 gallon boil (yield: 3 kegs). i have added fermcap to the fermentor once or twice if i had a particularly violent fermentation that was making a mess (krausen being spit out of the air lock). in those rare cases i added... 2 or 3 drops? don't remember specifically, but not much is needed. haven't noticed a bitterness increase, but wasn't specifically looking for that either.
 

Off Balance Brewing

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hey, sorry, just noticed i didn't reply... unfortunately i don't have a recommendation, as i do the opposite of you: i typically only add 3-5 drops to my 22-24 gallon boil (yield: 3 kegs). i have added fermcap to the fermentor once or twice if i had a particularly violent fermentation that was making a mess (krausen being spit out of the air lock). in those rare cases i added... 2 or 3 drops? don't remember specifically, but not much is needed. haven't noticed a bitterness increase, but wasn't specifically looking for that either.
So I've tried fermcap twice now with the cosmic. When added during the boil I didn't see much krausen reduction during fermentation . When used during fermentation only it did help lot and that was the only I haven't had cosmic or British V crawl out of my fermenter. At the recommended dosage a 2 drops per gallon I do notice a bitterness increase . maybe next time I'll cut it in half if you are using only a couple drops per barrel.
 
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sweetcell

sweetcell

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i'd also be interested in hearing if other folks experienced a drop in aromatics with subsequent pitches.
anecdote: i was gifted a brew day recently, but didn't have a great selection of yeast on hand so i pinged my local brewery to see if they were dumping any yeast. brewer didn't get back to me in time so i made do with various dry yeasts and a kveik. the following week the brewer writes back and tells me to drop off a sanitized jar. i do - don't want to turn down the offer, lest he not extend it next time - and he fills it with Cosmic Punch! not sure if i'm going to be able to use it - i now have a lot of hazy IPA fermenting, and i really should brew some lager while it's nice and cool in the basement... but it's neat to see that my local is hopping (!) on the CP train :D
update: got a large mason jar full of CP in mid-February. stayed in my fridge until mid-april, so 2 months, until i revived some of it in two 5L starters. the little beasties took off immediately, very active on the stir plate. split the two flasks between 3 batches of:

CPhazyApril22b.PNG


OG 1.066, FG's around 1.016. dry-hopped each batch differently: Citra with a touch of Nelson, Nelson with a touch of Citra, and Strata with a touch of Azacca.

so far i've only tapped the Citra/Nelson. it's been a huge hit, one of the best hazies i've made in a while. total citrus bomb. i can't comment on whether this batch with re-used yeast is better or worse than a fresh pitch... but it's certainly not lacking in aromatics. i'll try to post a pic later tonight.
 

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@sweetcell interesting that you are not doing any mash hops but are doing whirlpool. I though with cosmic punch we were supposed to mash hop and not whirlpool. Just tapped my first cosmic without whirlpool. I upped the dry hop with what I was going to put in the whirlpool. Honestly doesn’t seem much different. Unfortunately I can’t do side by side comparison.

I have tried cascade and calypso in the mash. Next I will try saaz. Really don’t see much difference between cosmic and verdant. Probably just the one more use out of cosmic then go back to verdant or verdant&new England mix. I really liked the mix.
 

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@sweetcell interesting that you are not doing any mash hops but are doing whirlpool. I though with cosmic punch we were supposed to mash hop and not whirlpool. Just tapped my first cosmic without whirlpool. I upped the dry hop with what I was going to put in the whirlpool. Honestly doesn’t seem much different. Unfortunately I can’t do side by side comparison.

I have tried cascade and calypso in the mash. Next I will try saaz. Really don’t see much difference between cosmic and verdant. Probably just the one more use out of cosmic then go back to verdant or verdant&new England mix. I really liked the mix.

Mash hopping is definitely the most effective way to get the precursors. Introducing Cosmic Punch™: A Thiol-Boosting Version of British V…
 
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sweetcell

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@sweetcell interesting that you are not doing any mash hops but are doing whirlpool. I though with cosmic punch we were supposed to mash hop and not whirlpool.
it's not that whirlpool hopping is bad and should be avoided - it's that, per Omega, mash hopping is twice as effective as whirlpool in terms of creating precursors. if efficiency is your thing, then mash hopping is the way to go.

i wasn't worried about efficiency: i put a damn pound of hops in the whirlpool. pretty sure i got all the precursors i needed :ban:
 

AzOr

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Off Balance Brewing

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I've made 3 beers with it. One pale and 2 Neipas. To me the thiol aroma/flavor was more noticable on the pale with only mash hop and a small 10 min addition. The neipas we're good but couldn't tell the thiol made a difference over London III after all the whirlpool and dry hop. All were mash hopped.

I've had a pilsner example at a local brewery and it was noticable like my pale was. Obviously it was lighter hopped.

At the end of the Janish blog I thought it did say it wasn't his favorite beer. Not enough bitterness to balance which if he's saying that I would assume like zero bitterness. I do like a little bitterness with my hazys and it's hard to tune with the mash hop.

Not sure I'll try another beer with it. Only possibilty would be a brut 100 cal back sweetened beer. Yeast flavor might come through on a lighter hoppy beer. From my experience.
 

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I've made 3 beers with it. One pale and 2 Neipas. To me the thiol aroma/flavor was more noticable on the pale with only mash hop and a small 10 min addition. The neipas we're good but couldn't tell the thiol made a difference over London III after all the whirlpool and dry hop. All were mash hopped.

I've had a pilsner example at a local brewery and it was noticable like my pale was. Obviously it was lighter hopped.

At the end of the Janish blog I thought it did say it wasn't his favorite beer. Not enough bitterness to balance which if he's saying that I would assume like zero bitterness. I do like a little bitterness with my hazys and it's hard to tune with the mash hop.

Not sure I'll try another beer with it. Only possibilty would be a brut 100 cal back sweetened beer. Yeast flavor might come through on a lighter hoppy beer. From my experience.
I had exactly the same experience with hazies, have yet to try and brew a lighter beer.
I wonder if phantasm is needed to get a significant difference and if you would really need cosmic for that or phantasm alone would be enough.
 

AzOr

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Interesting that you say you had similar results w London ale yeast.
I believe a recent Brulosophy podcast where they made a quick mention of Imperial’s version of London ale, Juice as having the same enzyme that unbinds thiols. I’m going by memory so…
I still have a pouch of Cosmo Punch in my fridge-I’ll probably have to prop it up.
I will probably make a very simple beer w 2 row and some chit malt. For hops I’m going basic- maybe Perle and cascade. I want to see if I do perceive a fruitiness that couldn’t be explained from old school hops.
 

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I've made a bunch of neipa's before that have ranged from good to great. I tried comic punch and followed my normal recipe but instead of a small 60min addition I did a 1.5oz mash hop with cascade. The beer came out way too hazy and very bitter even after a month and a half storage in the keg. Has anyone else experienced this? I did a starter so I could save some yeast for another batch and thought about a pale ale. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks
 

AzOr

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I've made a bunch of neipa's before that have ranged from good to great. I tried comic punch and followed my normal recipe but instead of a small 60min addition I did a 1.5oz mash hop with cascade. The beer came out way too hazy and very bitter even after a month and a half storage in the keg. Has anyone else experienced this? I did a starter so I could save some yeast for another batch and thought about a pale ale. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks
Did you use pellet hops?
I’m totally confused about mash hoping.
Do people use filters or hop spiders when mash hopping? My assumption is that if using pellets, they’ll find their way into the wort. Thus acting almost like a 60 min charge, unless filtering them out.
 

Bobby_M

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Did you use pellet hops?
I’m totally confused about mash hoping.
Do people use filters or hop spiders when mash hopping? My assumption is that if using pellets, they’ll find their way into the wort. Thus acting almost like a 60 min charge, unless filtering them out.

The mash hopping is to generate more Thiol precursor (per Omega's text).
 

beervoid

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That would only be for the vegetal material, not for components that are soluble like iso-alpha acids
Ah right, I can attest that the mash hopped beers I did where more bitter, but according to their own research you dont get full extraction of bitterness, guess these oils stick to the mash bed as well.
 

Bobby_M

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I get that part. I’ve poked around the net and can’t seem to find a consistent answer as to if people remove hops prior to boil.

Well, I mean they stay with the mash except for any of the oils that leach into wort. In my case, using BIAB, the grain and hop material gets pulled out with the bag. In a traditional mash tun, the same material should be vorlaufed out. Even if you were to put it all in a small mesh bag and placed on top of the mash, it wouldn't be removed and placed into the boil kettle after the mash. They are left behind. It's not the same as first wort hopping.

I can't comment on whether it makes a beer more bitter than expected because I created this NEIPA recipe from scratch and didn't base it on previous ones. If the formula in Brewfather is to be trusted, it calculated 10 IBUS for a 2oz mash hop of Cascade as opposed to 40 IBUS for the same amount as a 60 minute boil addition. That suggests that most of the oils don't make it into the boil.

edit: I found more references.

"If you wonder what the IBU implications might be from mash hopping, Omega found that ~30% utilization in their trials of what you’d expect to get from the same amount of hops used as a 60-minute addition. In other words, you would get ~30% of the expected IBUs from a 60-minute hop addition with a mash-hop addition. Utilizing high bound 3MH hops with low alpha-acid content (like Saaz) is a great way to boost thiol precursors into the wort without worrying too much about IBU increases."
 
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Steverus07

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Ah right, I can attest that the mash hopped beers I did where more bitter, but according to their own research you dont get full extraction of bitterness, guess these oils stick to the mash bed as well.
That checks out, I don’t know what the thresholds are, but probably alpha acids don’t fully isomerize at mash temps.
 

Off Balance Brewing

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I haven't experienced higher bitterness with a 3 to 4 oz mash hop or saaz, Chinook, nugget (what I had on hand and what the Janish material showed to be better for bound thiol). I use the brewfather mash hop utilization...and to me it might be a tad low.

Like Bobby I use a biab and pull the grains and and hops out before boil. Not sure why there isn't more utilization ibu from boiling.

Mentioned earlier the commercial pilsner I had also used phantasm. I'm sure it helps. Only homebrew source I've seen so far is hopcraft supply. Sells out as soon as they get it but you can watch for it.
 

Off Balance Brewing

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Interesting that you say you had similar results w London ale yeast.
I believe a recent Brulosophy podcast where they made a quick mention of Imperial’s version of London ale, Juice as having the same enzyme that unbinds thiols. I’m going by memory so…
I still have a pouch of Cosmo Punch in my fridge-I’ll probably have to prop it up.
I will probably make a very simple beer w 2 row and some chit malt. For hops I’m going basic- maybe Perle and cascade. I want to see if I do perceive a fruitiness that couldn’t be explained from old school hops.
Yeah london III or juice or Britt V all unlock some. Read the omega and Janish sites, they modified the britt V to unlock more
 

Panderson1

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Well, I mean they stay with the mash except for any of the oils that leach into wort. In my case, using BIAB, the grain and hop material gets pulled out with the bag. In a traditional mash tun, the same material should be vorlaufed out. Even if you were to put it all in a small mesh bag and placed on top of the mash, it wouldn't be removed and placed into the boil kettle after the mash. They are left behind. It's not the same as first wort hopping.

I can't comment on whether it makes a beer more bitter than expected because I created this NEIPA recipe from scratch and didn't base it on previous ones. If the formula in Brewfather is to be trusted, it calculated 10 IBUS for a 2oz mash hop of Cascade as opposed to 40 IBUS for the same amount as a 60 minute boil addition. That suggests that most of the oils don't make it into the boil.

edit: I found more references.

"If you wonder what the IBU implications might be from mash hopping, Omega found that ~30% utilization in their trials of what you’d expect to get from the same amount of hops used as a 60-minute addition. In other words, you would get ~30% of the expected IBUs from a 60-minute hop addition with a mash-hop addition. Utilizing high bound 3MH hops with low alpha-acid content (like Saaz) is a great way to boost thiol precursors into the wort without worrying too much about IBU increases."

What would a typical HAZY recipe look like using this yeast? Particularly the process of using mash hops? Is anyone using Saaz in the mash?

EDIT: Sorry just noticed the recipe in that link. I can't delete
 

Off Balance Brewing

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What would a typical HAZY recipe look like using this yeast? Particularly the process of using mash hops? Is anyone using Saaz in the mash?

EDIT: Sorry just noticed the recipe in that link. I can't delete
I just made a normal hazy with 3 or 4 oz mash hop and reduced whatever early bittering hop I had to hit my ibu target
 

JnLnNOVA

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Bumping this bc it’s that time of year I crave hoppy/fruity beers.
The following is a very interesting read from Scott Janish regarding unlocking bound thiols. Also good info on which hops to use in the whirlpool vs mash. I only wish phantasm powder was more readily available.
Appears to be in stock right now at hopcraftsupply.
 
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