Cornical™ Modular Keg System

[t3e871]

Just saw this new product from blichmann: looks interesting.
http://www.blichmannengineering.com/new-innovations-coming-soon

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Interesting............Dump the yeast and trub and what not, and swap bottoms.

Would have to see more details, as it's another joint to leak under pressure.......
If it is a true " V-band" coupling, with metal to metal seal, you would have to take care to not deform the flanges in any way.

And with a gasket, prolly' only one place to buy a spare.

 

[mpcluever]

And what happens if you pop that seal while it's under pressure. BOOM!

 

[bja]

Can't wait to see what that thing costs.

 

[bbrodka]

Cornicals will begin shipping on Monday, 11/14
Use discount code - Cornical - when ordering
Check out the videos
https://supplies.homebrew4less.com/products/blichmann-cornical?variant=31321003075

 

[movet22]

Looks very, very interesting, but I can see this baby costing me a small fortune. And for all the innovation that Blichmann puts out, it is never in the "even-moderately-affordable" price range.

EDIT - yeah, at $500, I'm effectively priced out. More fermonsters for me, I guess.

 

[DemonsRun]

I ferment in my Corny all the time transferring with C02 is not hard and reduces O2 exposure.
from their instructions
"flip it over, switch to a standard keg bottom" - this step opens the vessel to some air mixing in.
Put the bottom on Flip it back -that air is then in more contact with the beer.
you could then purge but I'd think some damage would already be done.

bbrodka - thanks for the link with better pictures which show the racking arm and all. for a small stainless Conical it looks great. Just wish it was competitively priced against say the SS Brew bucket.

 

[Drumminguy81]

Personally I think its awesome! Price seems ok considering you get a stainless tri clover conical and a keg.. it would be neat to see them in larger sizes 10-15 gallon..

 

[akthor]

Price is far too expensive for 5 gallons so with that logic my 1bbl conical should have been about $4000

 

[BurntOrngeLonghorn84]

I'd love to pair this with my zymatic...sigh...what's another $500.

 

[maierhof]

Did you all see that video?
Did anyone else notice the amount of trub left on the back wall of the corny they intend to be serving from?

Sure you can just pour off the remainder of what is left in it but I have way more control over what gets into my serving keg with my setup.

Uh - no thanks for that price!
I will keep my sanke fermentor setup until I get more money to actually buy a few conicals and do a glycol chiller setup too.

 

[akthor]

And you're never going to be able to get all the trub when you dump then you turn the contents upside down to put the keg bottom on? That's gonna stir everything back up. I would say you'd have to do an extended cold crash then transfer to a new keg before serving or your dip tube better be way up away from the bottom so you don't pour pints of sediment. Either way you're losing beer.

For 5 gallon brewers how is this a time saver or makes better beer? For those that believe in the whole oxidation thing this really goes there too.

Seems like a useless $500 bit of beer bling to me.

 

[Paps]

And

Seems like a useless $500 bit of beer bling to me.

 

[EazyMcBreazy]

Novel. IMHO should swap on a top rather than a second bottom therefore flipping only once. But Im a brewer and not an engineer. Though gives me an idea about top cropping from a corny. Id give it a test

 

[tjmac5071]

I saw this at beer-wine hobby this weekend. I can't see how you don't oxidize the hell out of the beer when flipping it to replace the bottom. Looked awesome but I'm not sure how it is functionally better than dedicating a couple cornies or better yet a 10 gal as a fermenter with the dip tubes cut then pressure xfer to a purged keg. Or just get a real conical, it's cheaper by the time you buy several kegs through them.

 

[MidAtlanticBrew]

The residual Trub and O2 issues seem so obvious. They must have seen it in testing and must be offering some type of use guidence? yes ... no?

500 dollar, man that's alot of bread, should make the brewers life easier, not harder.

Seems the only practical (money aside) way to use this is to forget bottom exchanges, leave the cone in place and use it as a combination fermenter / serving vessel

 

[AF1HomeBrew]

I wonder if the dip tube gets plugged up at all during fermentation. I see an extra keg top will cost $175. While it's an interesting concept I think I'll wait to see what others that purchase it find out how well it works.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Solution in search of a problem?

My main beef is you are loosing a fermenter for the duration of serving and/or bulk aging. Lets break it down:

If you want 3 beers continously on tap at your house and you are a five gallon brewer you need all of the following:

4+ kegs
1+ primary fermenters

So let's say you do it all with this cornical system. Not sure on the details of the "keg top and bottom" but lets assume the low end at $300. You are looking at a minimum of $1400 for three kegs (top and bottom but no cone) and one cornical.

New kegs are often going for $100 shipped now but let's assume $130. That gives you 4 kegs for $520 so $880 to find a ferementer or you can buy a 10 gallon corney for about $300 shipped and just shorten the dip tube...and this is only one option.

 

[skraeling]

for 500 bucks thats a 14g conical.

 

[jmark]

The residual Trub and O2 issues seem so obvious

My thoughts exactly... open it up to the air while letting all that trub, dry hop material and yeast that stuck to the sides and didn't come out of that 1.5" triclover bottom fall back into the beer when you flip it over... no thanks!

I have a SS Brewtech conical and it has those small 1.5" triclover ports and dry-hopping simply blocks up those ports, but that's not an issue since it has the racking arm and I can transfer clear beer... this on the other hand would end up with all that stuff falling back into the keg. Definitely seems like a 'solution' looking for a problem.

EDIT: One thing that *might* be interesting would be to use the fact that this might handle a bit of pressure to use the keg posts to transfer beer to another keg with CO2. However, doing that kind of negates the whole need for the 'swappable' bottom and it just becomes another conical. For the price, I'm not sure that's worth it.

 

[dthompson79]

Seems like everyone wants to reinvent the wheel

I think this is Blichmann trying to be innovative and hoping to remain relevant with increased competition in a slightly shrinking market. It seems ill conceived and problematic at best. Especially for the price.

Now their quick carb is at least useful though not to everyone.

 

[duelerx]

I was thinking maybe this is a good option for fermenting with spunding valve and LODO beers but the price is just so high!. I will rather wait for the new conical Spike fermenters next year.

 

[ImNoExpert]

Am I missing something here? What is this thing supposed to do?

What keeps that chunky krausen ring from dislodging and dispensing with your beer?

I can't figure out how this helps. Fewer kegs? No. I guess it's easier to clean than some conicals? Maybe?

 

[dthompson79]

I was thinking maybe this is a good option for fermenting with spunding valve and LODO beers but the price is just so high!. I will rather wait for the new conical Spike fermenters next year.

+1 for the spike conical. It by far looks like it will have the best options versus price. I am very interested to see what cooling options the release for it. They are even hinting at pressure fermenting, but I could be interpreting that wrong

 

[MidAtlanticBrew]

-1 plus another -1 for Spike conical, they don't have any conicals in stock and haven't for a long time, and may not for a long time

+1 for the spike conical. It by far looks like it will have the best options versus price. I am very interested to see what cooling options the release for it. They are even hinting at pressure fermenting, but I could be interpreting that wrong

 

[SpikeBrewing]

We promise we are working as hard and as fast as we can. We have a lot of big plans for our conical. It will be the most modular design on the market by far and we need to make sure all components work exactly as we have designed. We have a few of these out for beta right now. We hope they come back with flying colors and we can release them soon. We truly apologize for all the delays but we 100% promise the wait will be worth it!!

 

[FirmHandshake]

So compared to Spikes conical fermentor for 25 more dollars I can have both a conical fermentor and a keg. The kegs are pressure tested up to 50 PSI and its an Italian made keg with an American made fermentor bottom. I'm sorry but saying this is overpriced is beyond me. Not to mention you can pressure transfer and continue using it as a conical fermentor. Blichmann makes it pretty clear on their website. This will be my next investment.

 

[dthompson79]

So compared to Spikes conical fermentor for 25 more dollars I can have both a conical fermentor and a keg. The kegs are pressure tested up to 50 PSI and its an Italian made keg with an American made fermentor bottom. I'm sorry but saying this is overpriced is beyond me. Not to mention you can pressure transfer and continue using it as a conical fermentor. Blichmann makes it pretty clear on their website. This will be my next investment.

The overpriced comes more when you want to have a pipeline, unless you ferment one beer and then drink and repeat. Someone said the extra kegs are something like $175 each compared to $50-100 for standard corny's or pinlocks.

The inverting the conical/keg could be problematic as you never get all the yeast sludge/Krausen ring/trub out from a bottom dump.

Most importantly though is the exposure to oxygen while converting to a keg and then taking that slug of O2 and mixing it with your beer when it is reinverted.

Its your money spend it how you choose. It is just my opinion that it is a poorly conceived product with fundamental flaw. I expected better from Blichamnn

Edit: I could see how you might like this if you where going to use it strictly as a conical. I assume you can pressure ferment and that a plus. $500 for a 7 gallon conical is reasonable and its very slim looking if fermentor floor space is at a premium.

Where it becomes problematic is them touting the main feature of this is the keg conversion

 

[FirmHandshake]

The overpriced comes more when you want to have a pipeline, unless you ferment one beer and then drink and repeat. Someone said the extra kegs are something like $175 each compared to $50-100.

The inverting the conical/keg could be problematic as you never get all the yeast sludge/Krausen ring/trub out from a bottom dump.

Most importantly though is the exposure to oxygen while converting to a keg and then taking that slug of O2 and mixing it with your beer when it is reinverted.

Its your money spend it how you choose. It is just my opinion that it is a poorly conceived product with fundamental flaw. I expected better from Blichamnn

I already have a 7 gallon conical and a keg. If i get a cornical i can ferment two beers and when i'm done fermenting in both the conical and the cornical I pressure transfer from my cornical into my existing keg and clean that baby out attache my keg bottom and transfer from my existing conical into my now cornical keg. I see where people are coming from with the exposure to oxygen but I'm looking at the versatility of this product.

 

[dthompson79]

I already have a 7 gallon conical and a keg. If i get a cornical i can ferment two beers and when i'm done fermenting in both the conical and the cornical I pressure transfer from my cornical into my existing keg and clean that baby out attache my keg bottom and transfer from my existing conical into my now cornical keg. I see where people are coming from with the exposure to oxygen but I'm looking at the versatility of this product.

LOL Alright you get a pass in your circumstance

 

[GreatFermentations]

Hey HBT Peeps -

Bryan here from Great Fermentations. I’m a retailer of Blichmann's so I'm a bit biased on this topic, but thought I'd lend a few points/opinions on the convo. Posting dissenting comments on these threads always seems to rattle a hornets nest, so be gentle with me

1. Forget for a second that it is designed as just a corny keg with a fermentation bottom; at the end of the day, it's a Stainless Steel conical for $499. That's a pretty darn good price compared to others out there (SS Brewtech - which we sell, and Spike), and you have the added benefit of the keg portion.

2. The Cornical keg is made in Italy, the cone is MADE in the USA and assembled in the USA. The others are made in China. This used to mean something a bit more than it does today unfortunately, but this definitely helps support American industry. Just saying

3. Adding onto #1, I think the biggest advantage of the Cornical is that it ferments the way you want it. You can do the traditional rack and transfer (remember it's still just a conical fermenter), OR the fast and simple flip/switch/carbonate (the added benefit/feature of the Cornical).

4. Yes, you do carry over sediment if you flip/switch/carbonate in the keg. If you're concerned about that, use it the traditional way. Or just add finings in the keg and push out the sediment with the first pint a day or two later. It’ll take that long to carbonate anyway.

5. If you use the flip/switch/carbonate method, once you are done fermenting and moving onto carbonating, your fermentation bottom is available. For only $174.99 you can buy an additional Cornical keg, and you have yourself a second fermenter. Two stainless steel fermenters for roughly $675 vs. ~$1000 for some of the other brands.

6. Oxidation can be minimized by pressurizing the Cornical before sampling or dumping so no air is drawn in. Very simple to do on the Cornical, but more cumbersome on other conicals WHICH DRAW IN AIR WHILE DRAINING. Then when you flip, only CO2 is in the head space so there is no O2 pick-up there. Then quickly switch from the cone to the keg bottom to minimize O2 pick-up. Invert gently, then immediately pressurize and purge any O2 out of the head space.

7. Want to counter pressure from the Cornical fermenter into another Cornical keg or traditional corny keg? Simple to do with the Cornical. Difficult to do with low pressure conicals.

8. Want to push your beer through a filter into another keg? Easy to do with the Cornical since it’ll handle up to 50 PSI.

9. To wrap things up, if you’re a 10 gal batch brewer then, a 7 gal fermenter probably isn’t a good choice for you. BUT if you’re looking for an amazing 7 gal conical, or a simple solution for eliminating a transfer into another keg, or the other benefits I've listed above, the Cornical is something you should definitely consider. OR IF YOU’RE LOOKING FOR A KEG THAT IS SUPER EASY TO CLEAN.

Cheers!
Bryan

 

[WPStrassburg]

Has Blichmann had this assembly pressure tested and certified or are they assuming that the keg is certified so they must be good? I didn't see any stampings on the vessel anywhere and I believe anything over 15psi needs certification.

 

[jmark]

Some of those points seem reasonable although I don't really see any real advantages over a regular conical. However, I do have to counter with the following.

#3 I don't see flip/switch/carbonate as an added 'benefit'... just a way to introduce O2 into the mix
#4 No thanks... it's not just the yeast and trub from the bottom you have to worry about... your keg has also now mixed in that nice krausen line into your beer too during the flip.
#5 doesn't make sense at all... you do NOT have two fermenters - you have one bottom and two kegs... how does that add up to two fermenters?
#6 When doing a pressurized transfer you're drawing in CO2, not O2.

Does this have a market? Maybe... but personally I'd rather have a traditional conical than this. To each their own though.

 

[akthor]

I think Blichman just wanted an excuse to use the name "Cornical"

 

[crhall41]

How do you control temperature without a thermowell port? I suppose you could add one but that would likely reduce how much pressure you can apply to the cornical for transfers.

 

[akthor]

If your someone who doesn't mind the flipping over part I guess temp control is probably the last thing you're concerned with....

 

[duelerx]

How do you control temperature without a thermowell port? I suppose you could add one but that would likely reduce how much pressure you can apply to the cornical for transfers.

A friend of mine uses the Tilt for temperature and gravity control in his keg with no problems.

 

[GreatFermentations]

Some of those points seem reasonable although I don't really see any real advantages over a regular conical. However, I do have to counter with the following.

#3 I don't see flip/switch/carbonate as an added 'benefit'... just a way to introduce O2 into the mix
#4 No thanks... it's not just the yeast and trub from the bottom you have to worry about... your keg has also now mixed in that nice krausen line into your beer too during the flip.
#5 doesn't make sense at all... you do NOT have two fermenters - you have one bottom and two kegs... how does that add up to two fermenters?
#6 When doing a pressurized transfer you're drawing in CO2, not O2.

Does this have a market? Maybe... but personally I'd rather have a traditional conical than this. To each their own though.

Thanks for chiming in! It's pretty clear you don't like the idea of exposing the beer to oxygen (albeit for a short period of time). In that scenario, you are basically just comparing conicals. So, in that sense, what is the Cornical missing at that price point?

Cheers!
Bryan

 

[Stealthcruiser]

In that scenario, you are basically just comparing conicals. So, in that sense, what is the Cornical missing at that price point?

Cheers!
Bryan

A market?.....

 

[GreatFermentations]

A market?.....

Ha!

Ba Dum Tss