Cooling the Wort

[grasshopper1917]

I have been reading some info on cooling the wort - one recomendation is putting the pot in some cool water in the sink - what though if you pour the hot wort on the primary fermenter on some ice cold water and then top it up with ice cild water to get the temp down in he low 70's? Is there anythng wrong with this method?

 

[MikeRLynch]

Nope, in fact thats the way Jim Koch from sam adams tells you to do it in his video tutorial. I freeze two 1 gal spring water bottles and cut them open and dump them in primary, then pour the wort over it.

mike

 

[mot]

ice things works ( I have never done it) but just be carefull with sanitation. I just use and ice bath in the sink for now. I make a bunch of ice cubes and a few big blocks of ice made out of some larger tuperware containers and throw them in the sink with water. Thtose big ice block cool it down pretty quick

 

[FSR402]

The only problem I see with putting the wort right onto ice is that you have no control of how cold you just made it, plus you would have to wait until all the ice is melted before pitching the yeast.
I use a chiller I just drop into my boil 15 minutes before it's done, turn on the garden hose and watch the temp drop. $50 at my LHBS and I'll be able to use it for larger batches then just a 5 gallon. Note: I do full boils, so picking up over 5 gallons of boiling wort to put in a sink of ice just would not be a good thing to do.

 

[homebrewer_99]

The only problem with wort chillers is that you run your cold water for 15 mins. How many gals is wasted that way?

I do 1.5 gal boils. I place 4 gals of PUR filtered tap water in 1 gal jugs and place them in the freezer for 4-5 hours prior to brewing. At this times they are in various stages of ice forming inside the jugs.

I pour 2 into the primary, sparge the wort to remove hops, etc., and sparge with another gal. Remove the net and top off to 5.25 gals. Stir, take measurements. etc.

Temps are down between 65 and 74F in the amount of time it takes to pour and stir.

EDIT: I brewed this morning and my wort dropped down to 60F at top off.

 

[Turkeyfoot Jr.]

I start my boil with about 2.5 gallons of water so after an hour of boiling that's probably 2-2.25 gallons. I take that directly from the stove to an ice bath in the kitchen sink. It takes all of 10 minutes to cool it from boiling to 115F or so and then I pout it into the carboy through a strainer which aerates it quite nicely. Then I top it off with enough cold tap water to make 5 gallons. By the time all that's done the temp's down to 75F or so. If I need it cooler I just leave it in the ice bath an extra 5-10 minutes.

EDIT: I wanted to add that when I go to full boils, which I plan to do soon, I'm going to invest in a chiller. I don't think the ice batch will be very effective for 5 gallons of wort.

 

[malkore]

Umm, I have read in several places that hot wort is susceptible to oxidation, so pouring/splashing into the primary could easily skunk the beer before it even ferments.
plus in a glass carboy, you might heat shock the glass and break teh carboy and send your beer all over the floor.

plus you need the cold break to precipitate some of the nasties outta the wort, and ideally you then pour or siphon off of these nasties that are left in the trub in the brew pot.

 

[Cheesefood]

The only problem with wort chillers is that you run your cold water for 15 mins. How many gals is wasted that way?

If you have cool groundwater (like we do), and a CFC, you really don't need a lot of water.

 

[Turkeyfoot Jr.]

Wow, it's amazing how something can be right in front of your face and yet you don't see it.

I've been reading up on AG a lot lately and in doing so I've read a good bit on the dangers of hot side aeration and the affect it can have on wort. Somehow my brain missed the connection between what I was reading about AG and how I'm handling my extract worts. I probably never made the connection at least in part because I've never had an issue with oxidation, none of my beers have been skunky. But I'm not going to tempt the fates anymore. Thanks for that wake up call malkore.

 

[arturo7]

I use the ice-in-the-wort cooling method. The bagged ice sold at the local market has gone through the same filtering process as the bottled water. I dump the bags directly into the boil pot. When cooled I splash it into the primary to aerate.

 

[FSR402]

The only problem with wort chillers is that you run your cold water for 15 mins. How many gals is wasted that way?

Thru a 3/8 tube for 10 - 15 minutes, not really sure. But I just pump it into my yard so some of my grass is getting more water then norm.
I could care less how much water I'm using, I waste a heck of a lot more washing one of my cars.
I just love how fast it is, the fact that I don't have to pick up 5 - 6 gallons of boiling water/wort and no messing with an ice bath. :rockin:

 

[homebrewer_99]

Thru a 3/8 tube for 10 - 15 minutes, not really sure. But I just pump it into my yard so some of my grass is getting more water then norm.
I could care less how much water I'm using, I waste a heck of a lot more washing one of my cars.
I just love how fast it is, the fact that I don't have to pick up 5 - 6 gallons of boiling water/wort and no messing with an ice bath. :rockin:

It was really a rhetorical question...I know it's a lot. I've witnessed it.

One brewer here mentioned using the chiller and catching the hot water to help him with hot water for cleaning up afterwards. I'm not a tree hugger mind you, but that is a smart way to reuse that water.

 

[FatMonsters]

I found that putting the pot in a smaller size sink with cold water and ice goes a whole lot faster! Dumb me was using the bathtub which was taking forever since it only came up to maybe haflway on the pot. My last brew I put the pot into my new wash sink in the basement (much smaller area) with water and ice. BAM, cooled down under 75 in like 15 minutes. I use a sanitized spoon and stir the hot wort while it is cooling. I do NOT stir or open the lid while I am filling the sink. Only if the water is off do I open the pot lid to stir!

 

[DeathBrewer]

i usually cool in my sink. initially the water warms up very fast, so i always drain that first bit of water, then add ice to the second time i fill it. i find this works best and can usually cool my wort in less than a half hour. my common practice right now is to cool it to 72ºF, then add 72ºF water, then aerate and pitch.

 

[bassplayrr]

It was really a rhetorical question...I know it's a lot. I've witnessed it.

One brewer here mentioned using the chiller and catching the hot water to help him with hot water for cleaning up afterwards. I'm not a tree hugger mind you, but that is a smart way to reuse that water.

That's exactly what I do. I "catch" the warm water from my chiller in a 5 gallon bucket and use it clean up my mess later. That's what you get from a lefty california boy. Actually, for me it's less about saving the planet and more about saving my money clip. :/

 

[arturo7]

The only problem with wort chillers is that you run your cold water for 15 mins. How many gals is wasted that way?

Being a California boy, I too would be concerned about the amount of water wasted cooling a wort for 15 minutes. However, while cruising through the Home Depot looking at components to build a wort chiller, I came across a drill-mounted pump in the plumbing aisle.

The cost was under $10 and it attaches to any standard drill. I can't remember the exact flow rate, but it seems that it would be more than your kitchen sink would put out.

Probably the best way to use it would be to fill your sink with ice and water and pump it through your chiller. Fast, efficient and with minimal waste.

 

[bassplayrr]

Being a California boy, I too would be concerned about the amount of water wasted cooling a wort for 15 minutes. However, while cruising through the Home Depot looking at components to build a wort chiller, I came across a drill-mounted pump in the plumbing aisle.

The cost was under $10 and it attaches to any standard drill. I can't remember the exact flow rate, but it seems that it would be more than your kitchen sink would put out.

Probably the best way to use it would be to fill your sink with ice and water and pump it through your chiller. Fast, efficient and with minimal waste.

Ooooh, that's a pretty sweet idea. I'll have to look in to that.

 

[gman]

That's *really* interesting. I bet you could hook that up to a standard electric motor or something, and not have to use a drill. I'll have to look at my local home despot and see if they have something like it there. Any info on the brand or anything?

 

[arturo7]

Any info on the brand or anything?

No idea of the brand but there was only one model on the shelf.

 

[feedthebear]

I can cool 4 gallons off in my sink in 30 minutes. I just have to change the water every 10 minutes. Plus it gives me time to clean up my mess and write my brewing notes.

 

[bassplayrr]

I can cool 4 gallons off in my sink in 30 minutes. I just have to change the water every 10 minutes. Plus it gives me time to clean up my mess and write my brewing notes.

But you don't get to blow money on silly gadgets that way. Isn't that what this hobby's all about?

 

[cclloyd]

I too use the iced spring water / bagged ice method - I boil 2.5 gals of wort and then pour it onto 2 gals iced water and a 10 lb bag of ice - the temp drops instantly to around 65 F and the wort is aerated for the pitch. I have never had a contamination issue and until I start doing full boils this will be my method of choice.

 

[MikeRLynch]

As for using bagged ice in the primary, isn't there a possibility of infection? I don't know about you guys, but sometimes the bagged ice around me is questionable as far as it's origins and it's sterility. I only used sealed spring water, which I freeze myself. And what about conversions? Ice comes measured in lbs, while the recipies we use call for gallons. Just curious, if this is a viable way of cooling, then I'm going to try it in my next batch, freezing gallon jugs of water takes up waaay too much freezer room

mike

 

[Yooper]

I wouldn't use commercial bagged ice- I'd make my own by sanitizing cool whip containers and freezing either good tap water or bottled water. Then use that.

I'd use a little less than I needed, then put the wort into it. Top up to 5 gallons with cool water if needed.

There is talk of hot side aeration any time you pour hot wort. To avoid it, you cool the wort to under 90 degrees in an ice bath, and then add cold water to it to get your temp around 70 degrees. So, no ice needed if you do it that way.

 

[homebrewer_99]

There is talk of hot side aeration any time you pour hot wort. To avoid it, you cool the wort to under 90 degrees in an ice bath, and then add cold water to it to get your temp around 70 degrees. So, no ice needed if you do it that way.

I've been pouring my hot wort right from the pot through a nylon net into the primary for 13+ years and have yet to witness a hot side aeration. Many of my beers have kept for several years.

 

[Turkeyfoot Jr.]

I'm wondering if hot side aeration is more of a concern with AG as opposed to extract since the volume of liquid being poured is greater and not as concentrated. Just spitballing here because I've brewed 14 batches so far and each one was poured through a strainer, lots of aeration, at temps of at least 120F and not one has oxidized on me.

 

[Yooper]

To be honest, it's not really a concern of mine, either. I'm just saying that there has been talk of it, particularly in John Palmer's book. I've never experienced it and don't really worry about it.

I can't lift 5 gallons of hot wort, anyway- so I cool mine with the wort chiller and then siphon most of it and then pour the rest when it's light enough. But when I was doing extracts, I'm sure I poured hot wort more than one or twice.

 

[DNW]

Being a California boy, I too would be concerned about the amount of water wasted cooling a wort for 15 minutes. However, while cruising through the Home Depot looking at components to build a wort chiller, I came across a drill-mounted pump in the plumbing aisle.

The cost was under $10 and it attaches to any standard drill. I can't remember the exact flow rate, but it seems that it would be more than your kitchen sink would put out.

Probably the best way to use it would be to fill your sink with ice and water and pump it through your chiller. Fast, efficient and with minimal waste.

This sounds like a really cool idea, but I'd be interested to know how well it actually works. Basically, you'd have to have more square footage of exposed chiller tubing than the sides/bottom of the kettle covered by the same water (ok, and allow for differences in heat transfer rate).

20' of 3/8 ID tubing has about 2.6 SF of outside surface. A 5 gallon kettle has approx 4.1 SF of outside surface when 10" deep (3.5 gal boil). Of course, my kettle is stainless, so the transfer rate isn't as good, but I bet that with an aluminum one you may be just as well off putting the kettle in the ice-water bath.

Has anyone done good comparisons?

 

[nickhead]

"If the wort is exposed to oxygen at temperatures above 80F, the beer will eventually develop wet cardboard or sherrylike flavors, depending on which compounds were oxidized. The oxidation of long-chain fatty acids produces 2-trans-nonenal, which tastes like cardboard and smells like old paper."

Now I won't pretend to know what all that means, but I found this information in Palmer's - How to Brew after I brewed 3 straight extract batches that tasted like crappy wet cardboard. One is seriously dumpable - i won't dump it, but no one has successfully drank one in its entirety yet - it's been about 5-6 months. I've since bought a wort chiller, and have been good to go.

Am I the only one?

 

[nosmatt]

having a well with very cold tap water year round has it's advantages!
i run my wort chiller for 15 mins or so, and the water is barely trickling out. im certain i do not use more than 5 gallons of water to cool my wort.

key is, move the chiller almost constantly. i get under 70* easy..... 47* out of the tap, even when it is 105 outside.... i do love that. manganese and iron through the roof so i have to use bottled water to brew with, well that sucks!


good luck

 

[Millatime417]

It was really a rhetorical question...I know it's a lot. I've witnessed it.

One brewer here mentioned using the chiller and catching the hot water to help him with hot water for cleaning up afterwards. I'm not a tree hugger mind you, but that is a smart way to reuse that water.

Harpoon (and probably many other big boys) uses the heated water from the heat exchanger to start their next brew. Obviously this is on a much larger scale but doing this you save the water and using less energy to heat the water in the mash tun.

Probably not practical for the homebrewer but i suppose if you're doing back to back batches it could work...