Cooler or Mash Tun.

[Nostrildamus]

Alright guys, I've made the decision to go to all grain in the next month or so and I've got a boatload of questions for you. I've read up on the technique and I'm interested to know what sort of equipment setup you have.

I've been presented with two ideas for systems, one involving a converted beverage cooler and one using a stainless steel mash tun.

Now at first glance the cooler seemed like the easiest method to brew and maybe a cheaper route but now looking at my LHBS website I see they have mash tuns on for $20. Coolers aren't $20 rather more like $40 and converting it takes time. I also want the ability to do three rests and having read Palmer's How To Brew it seems as though you can run out of space in the cooler when you're adding that much water. I myself would simply have a larger cooler.

Does it make sense to go the stainless steel mash-tun route and simply heat it directly while being careful to stir the grain? I would think that elevating the temperature for the next rest by turning on the heat would be easier than adding hot water, stirring checking the temp, adding more hot etc.

What other gear would you suggest AND WHY? Please explain it fully. I'm really interested in your experienced opinion.

Thanks again for your help folks.

 

[WortMonger]

You should check out the steam infusion threads on here, really neat stuff using a pressure cooker and coolers. I am heading this route personally just for 1. ease of heating to rest without having to add infusion water when using a cooler and 2. as a nice way to make sure my Therminator chiller stays clean, thats a tough little bugger to sanitize. Anyways, steam and direct-contact-elements are the only two ways other than infusing that I know of people use with cooler setups. If you go stainless you still have to insulate and continually monitor your mash temps more than inside a cooler. Its whatever you choose though, I have stainless but am in debate myself if a cooler isn't a smarter application for my new steam needs, plus Insulating the keg looks like crap to me and I want a smoother looking setup. As for a mixer, I built my friend a little 5 gallon steam setup a little over a month ago, and in the lid of the maxcool cooler I installed a sundial icecream machine motor and case. The motor (which turns righty tighty) was attached to a copper threaded fitting and I made a mash rake out of copper tubing attached with an opposite sex fitting. It is easily disassembled with two cresent wrenches and really just looks like a couple of copper fingers stirring around under the mash. It is simple on/off and so is the steam. Honestly on that size the rake was a luxury (it was a wedding gift afterall) and could have easily been hand stirred while steaming to achieve same results, but I am 16 gallon batch size and I want a fricking rake on mine and am planning the same motor assembly and rake manufacture only bigger. On my friends system the lautering manifold and valve act as a steam injection manifold and valve, so there are no holes to drill through the walls of the cooler. It looks so clean and I really wish he would get back from Europe and post some pictures of it with a good digital camera, mine conked out. Anyways, sorry to ramble about what I made and what I am making, I just know I am excited and I got that way by reading some awesome threads about steam infusion on here. There are some really smart people on this community and urge you to read their stuff, they even have data to back it up. Hope this helps you out, when I remake my system I am borrowing someones camera this time. I was really happy with my results first time out.:rockin:

 

[FlyGuy]

Wortmonger, that's a really cool sounding system -- please post some pics and some details once your friend is back. I would really like to see it!

I will put in a plug, too , for a cooler-based MLT. Here is some text that I copied from a previous post of mine providing the rationale:

Here is a really flexible system that I would recommend if you are batch sparging:

MLT: converted 10 gal Rubbermaid cooler (see my sig for construction details)
HLT: 5 - 7 gal cooler, converted the same way
boil kettle: converted keggle
heat source: propane burner, such as a turkey fryer
chiller: 50' immersion chiller or 25' counter-flow chiller
extras: if you want to do step mashes, a steam injection system (see my sig for an example), temperature probes, etc.

A cooler-based system has some real advantages that I think people sometimes don't give full credit to:
- they are inexpensive
- they are easy to assemble and don't require special tools (e.g., welder)
- mashing in a cooler makes it very easy to hit and hold a mash temperature, and the heat stays very uniformly distributed
- the system is light and easily portable
- does not require a separate brewstand
- allows one to get away with using only one pot and one burner (the most expensive items in the system)
- you generally don't need a pump because a cooler full of water/mash isn't nearly as heavy to lift as a full keggle (so less expense, one less thing to clean)

I suggest two different sized coolers for flexibility. For example, if you are brewing with a small grainbill, use the 5 to 7 gal cooler for your mash tun so that you have a good grainbed depth. If you are brewing a bigger beer, use the 10 gal mash tun and the other becomes the HLT. While you are mashing, heat your sparge water and put it in the second cooler. Lauter directly into the now empty boil kettle, and start heating, and conduct your sparge. You will only be limited if you want to do a really big beer and you need a lot of sparge water, in which case two 10 gal coolers might be a better setup.

As other posters suggest above, if you decide you want to change your system around, the components here are almost completely recyclable. Those round coolers make excellent fermentation chambers for lagering (just add ice), and they hold a corny keg really well for deck parties. So you won't really be wasting any of your investment if you still want a big 3-tier herms system down the road.

Disadvantages of a cooler system:
- poor LCF (Look Cool Factor -- yeah, the coolers aren't as impressive as a big, shiny SS herms setup)
- can't direct fire them (but you can use steam injection which is just as easy, and has many advantages as well)
- probably some others I am not thinking of right now

I also highly advocate using steam injection for multi-temp mashes. The details of my cheap and easy steam system are in my signature.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

I have a slightly more complex steam system that works for 15+ gallon batches. Check out my signature also.

 

[FlyGuy]

SLIGHTLY more complex? Yuri, you are far too humble!

 

[WortMonger]

These are the guys to anyone reading, that started it all. I contemplate a sanke cleaned and put together, with a special tap (closed off beer-out/steam release on the gas-in fitting with one way valve removed), provide a heat source and get the keg to 15psi and kill the heat. Now wrap the keg in insulation and use it as needed for the mash (15.5 gallon batch size). Should have no problem with all necessary heating power, right? Then dump all remaining steam into boil kettle upon the starting of heating until all the steam is gone. Now you have a < full keg of hot water to clean with later. Now brew as normal. Afterwards, use the hot water for cleaning and rest keg upside down to empty rest. Since it is upside down it should be safe until almost completely void of water. Then purge keg with CO2 and Viola!, you have a keg ready to go. Using distilled water as the heat medium! It would combine a bunch of things needed all in one package. What do you Guru's of Steam think of that?

 

[WortMonger]

Sorry to hijack the topic from cooler or stainless to steam.

 

[perry]

My humble opinion is that if you go with the mash tun you will never wish you had the cooler system, but if you start with the cooler you will eventually long for the flexibility of a "heatable" mash... That's what happened to me.

I know there are folks who swear by the cooler method so I'm sure I'll be lambasted for that comment!

Happy resting! -p

 

[Lil' Sparky]

I have a converted keg MLT that I direct heat and really like that flexibility. The first benefit is you heat the strike water in it and don't have to transfer it from a different kettle. It's also much easier to get your mash temps right if you miss the first try, and temperature steps are easier than dorking around with infustion calculations (which are always off by my experience). Insulation would probably help, but I lose very little heat without it, and it's easy to fix if you do - just crack on the burner for a short bit. I wouldn't go back to a cooler mash tun for anything.

That said, a lot of people like their cooler setups and would probably say they'd never change, either. I say pick something and roll with it. You'll make some great AG beer either way.

Cheers

 

[the_bird]

I like my cooler mash tun (a converted Coleman Xtreme) because once I get the mash temp dialed in, it locks down perfectly for an hour. I don't lose more than a degree of temperature; if I want to mash at 152&#176;, I'm mashing at 152&#176;, I'm not heating it up to 154, then seeing it cool down to 149, then hitting the burner again; VERY steady temperatures.

Would I like to be able to step mash? Sure - but from all that I read, the need to actually do a step mash on almost any beer with modern malts is very limited. So, I'm not sure how often I would feel the need to do a protein rest anyway. For something like a hefe where you don't really want to do single infusion, I'd rather do a decoction.

So, I'm happy with my current setup, and suspect that I would miss it if I were to move to a direct-fired MLT setup.

 

[Lil' Sparky]

Bird - I just want to clarify how the keg MLT holds temps. I don't have a 5' loss. In fact, usually it's less than 1' although I don't mash for an hour, usually only 30-40 mins unless I'm doing a multi-rest profile. I think part of that is that when you heat the strike water directly in the keg, it gets hot and since it's stainless it doesn't lose the heat very fast. I think you'd be surprised at how well it maintains temps. Maybe some other guys w/ keg MLTs will chime in here.

 

[the_bird]

That's interesting; I would expect there to be more variation than that...

 

[perry]

My experience is the same as lil' sparky's... with a five gal batch I lose about three degrees. With the (now) usual ten gal batch, it's about a degree, if that. In fact, if I don't spray the metal ring around the bottom, the temp actually rises a tiny bit. Thermal mass, I guess. -p

 

[WortMonger]

My 16 gallon batch is the same way. I lose very little heat due to thermal mass. My problem is hitting the right temp. Thats why I am going with steam

 

[BadKarma]

The bird, flyguy and yuri are responsible for this creation.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=31964

I read everything I could get my eyes on and went with the Ice Cube. The manifold is experimental but changing will be a breeze if needed.

 

[Ryanh1801]

I like the cooler just for the simplicity, that and im broke. If I want to step mash I just do decoction, well I have only done one, but it was very easy, but took some time.

 

[FlyingHorse]

I have a 7.5 gal SS pot, a 9-gal SS pot, a 10-gal igloo cooler, and a SS false bottom that I can swap between all of them. I'm indifferent between them, really. The cooler holds temps slightly better (loses ~1 degree and hour, where the pots, with an insulation jacket, will lose 2-3 if I don't add heat).

Using the cooler saves me one transfer of hot liquid, so that's generally what I do. If I do a step mash, though, I'll use one of the SS pots.

 

[Pabst Blue Robot]

Don't dismiss the cooler all together for lack of step mashes. Besides steam, there is also the potential for decoction or even simple infusions.

Also in favor of the cooler are the fact that you can build a 40 gallon mash tun for about $100.