Cooler Conversion Questions

[Barley-Davidson]

I plan to start brewing all grain next year when my son is a little older. I’ve been looking into converting a cooler for mashing, and have a few questions.

I will be doing single temp infusion mashes and batch sparging. I plan to use a rectangular cooler (48 qt?) with a manifold.

Here are my questions:

Copper vs. CPVC for the manifold – what’re the pros and cons of each?

Holes vs. slits, does one have an advantage over the other?

Up or down – which way should the holes or slits face?

Partial Mash – I’m hoping to get in a few partial mashes this year, will it be a problem doing a smaller mash with this setup, or will it be fine.

I know most of these questions will have answers on both sides, I’m just trying to see if there’s a consensus of opinion.
Fabrication will begin when coolers go on sale so I’m planning it out now.

 

[bnutting]

Well I can respond on what I know.
I've built a MT using a 48 qt rectangular cooler. The good thing is that I do 5 gallon batches and there is A LOT of room, the bad thing is that there is A LOT of room. However doing batch sparges (which is what I do) is no problem I have yet to have a stuck sparge.

I built a rectangular copper manifold using holes and it works great! I only leave about a cup and a half (1 1/2) of liquid in the tun, which I think is pretty darn good.

You will most definitely want to preheat your cooler with near boiling water prior to pouring in your mash water and grains. You will probably loose almost No temp when you add everything in.

As far as the manifold goes it was easier for me to drill a crap load of small (1/32 I think) holes. I don't own a dremmel or any other cutting tool and it was a royal pain to try to use a hack saw. I have my holes on the bottom and I think that is where you want them. You also want to make sure that you can disassemble the manifold for cleaning.

I'm still working on dialing in my system so that I can hit my temps better, my first AG was a disaster but the following ones have gone pretty well. I have made 3 AGs so far.

Hope this helps,
Bryan

 

[Lil' Sparky]

1) shouldn't really matter
2) see #1
3) see #1, but I think down is more common
4) I think it'll be too big, but I'll let the PM guys provide more definitive answers

 

[david_42]

I have a 48 qt cooler (icecube) & batch sparge, so PM isn't a problem. I use a big grain bag instead of a manifold. It lets a bit more debris through, but not bad. I suspect if you fly sparge the bed would be a bit thin.

 

[Barley-Davidson]

The cube might be better for PM since the grain bed wouldn't be spread as thin.

Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming.

 

[FlyGuy]

You didn't say if you intend to fly sparge or batch sparge. That's probably the first decision to make before you go designing and building a MLT.

Those rectangular Coolers, like the Coleman Extreme, are great for batch sparging. However, 48 quarts is going to be too big for PM. Often you will only do a couple/few pounds of grain, and you just won't get any filtration from the shallow grainbed. I have tried it once in my 10 gallon round Rubbermaid cooler, which is very tall and narrow, and it didn't work well. I am sure that a larger, rectangular cooler would be even worse. My 3 gallon cooler is perfect for most PMs, and cost next to nothing to buy.

As a compromise, you might consider a 5 gal round cooler. It would allow you to do both PMs easily, and you could do AG batches up to about 1.065 in gravity (about 12 - 13 lbs of grain). You could also use it as a hot liquor tank if you build a bigger mash tun down the road.

I will also put in a plug for a SS braid if you are going to batch sparge. They are cheap, dead simple to construct, and may provide quicker recirculation than a manifold (provided you buy a braid that is pretty tight).

 

[Got Trub?]

I would second FlyGuy's recommendation for a round cooler and go with braid.

I have done fly and batch sparging and started with a 48Q cooler and manifold. I found it was too big for partial mashes and small beers as efficiency was poor because you need a minimal grain bed height in order to get good, even flow with the manifold. So I built a smaller one with a manifold and all was well ...until I learned about batch sparging and the power of the braid .

 

[67coupe390]

What they said!!!
I like the braided SS line because its cheap and easy. But down on a manifold because you will tend to pick up more wort that way. And "wasted wort is just as bad as wasted beer!" Wow !!!that should be a bumper sticker. It works on so many levels.

 

[HarvInSTL]

1) shouldn't really matter
2) see #1
3) see #1, but I think down is more common
4) I think it'll be too big, but I'll let the PM guys provide more definitive answers

I'd have to disagree with most of those points.

1a.) It does matter. CPVC is rated for 200deg, depending on the sparge method you choose, you might be tossing in boiling water (212deg+). I'd rather not worry about if I am leeching anything into my wort from the CPVC. Unless you can show me some tests that prove nothing is leeched at 200+ deg I'd stick with copper.

If cost is a concern, CPVC would be cheaper though.

2a.) Slits are easier to do. If you use a copper manifold with 4 rows of copper, it is easier to cut all 4 rows at the same time using something like a bandsaw than it is to drill god knows how many seperate holes.

3a.) It is all about gravity. If you put your holes or slits on the top, the wort beneath that level will not be drained. I'd say use slits that are 40%.

4a.) I agree, a 48qt would be too big for a partial mash. If you plan on sticking with PM's then go with a 5gal round. And another vote for the SS braid!

 

[Lil' Sparky]

Harv -

1) Lots of people use CPVC and it works just fine. Even with boiling water additions, your mash doesn't ever reach anywhere near 200'.

2) I've read that some people have found that drilling holes was easier for them. My point was it really doesn't matter as far as effectiveness goes - either one WORKS fine. Do whatever is easiest for you.

3) There have been several threads about this. People do it both ways. Some have tested their manifold with slits on top and bottom and had no noticeable difference in the result. Others say one way works better, but there has been no definitive answer to this. But like I said, I think down is more common, and makes more sense to me, too.

Cheers

 

[Barley-Davidson]

The round coolers are gettin' a lot of love, I might have to rethink my original plans.

Thanks again for the input.

 

[Blender]

You know if you aren't going to start full on until next year why not get a 2-3 gallon round cooler for your grain. They are perfect for what you intend to do and should be real cheap about now. When you go all grain then convert a nice 48 qt. rectangular cooler. The stainless steel braids work great and is about as easy as it gets.

Something like these>> 3 gallon 2gallon

 

[FlyGuy]

You know if you aren't going to start full on until next year why not get a 2-3 gallon round cooler for your grain. They are perfect for what you intend to do and should be real cheap about now. When you go all grain then convert a nice 48 qt. rectangular cooler. The stainless steel braids work great and is about as easy as it gets.

I have a 3 gal one and they work fine. But if you get a 5 gal round cooler, it is not too big for PM and you will be able to make use of it for AG (either as a mash tun for small to moderate SG beers, or as a HLT).

 

[HarvInSTL]

Hold the phone, what do you think you are doing disagreeing with my disagreements? We agree to disagree?

1.) I realize that a lot people use CPVC, just for me personally I'd rather not have to worry about it possibly leeching anything out of it. Even if it is a very small chance.

2.) I should have clarified a bit more. If you are cutting slits in one piece at a time or drilling holes one at a time, I would agree that they both would take the same amount of time. How ever if you have access to a bandsaw or something of that nature cutting slits in 4 pieces at once would be alot faster. As would using a small tabletop drill press.

3.)I just think it is a simple law of gravity/fluid dynamics. It is just like putting a drain at the 1 gallon mark on your bottling bucket, and then putting a drain at the 2 gallon mark. Which drain would you use to get the most liquid out of the bucket?

Same idea, just alot smaller distance between the two options. But honestly we are talking about what a cup of wort at most?

Also if i came across like an ******* in my last post, I'm sorry. I was only trying to post my views/opinons and by no means are my views/opinons the word of god/allah/buddha/snoop dogg or what ever entity you might worship.

I was at a local brewpub last night and read a great quote. "Ask 10 brewers and you will get 11 opinions."

Harv -

1) Lots of people use CPVC and it works just fine. Even with boiling water additions, your mash doesn't ever reach anywhere near 200'.

2) I've read that some people have found that drilling holes was easier for them. My point was it really doesn't matter as far as effectiveness goes - either one WORKS fine. Do whatever is easiest for you.

3) There have been several threads about this. People do it both ways. Some have tested their manifold with slits on top and bottom and had no noticeable difference in the result. Others say one way works better, but there has been no definitive answer to this. But like I said, I think down is more common, and makes more sense to me, too.

Cheers

 

[Lil' Sparky]

Harv, it's all good. Nothing I read on an internet forum would ever set me off. I'm even tolerant of most a-holes in person - usually.

I just had to prove I was right
... even if I wasn't
... not that I'm saying I wasn't.

 

[HarvInSTL]

My wife hates this, but normally when we have a disagreement I tell her, "I'm not always right, but I'm never wrong."

That normally ends the conversation and I can go about my business for a couple hours til the make up part.

Harv, it's all good. Nothing I read on an internet forum would ever set me off. I'm even tolerant of most a-holes in person - usually.

I just had to prove I was right
... even if I wasn't
... not that I'm saying I wasn't.

 

[67coupe390]

I can go about my business for a couple hours til the make up part.

BOOM SHAKA-LAKA!!!!!!!:rockin:

 

[BadKarma]

I have both a 5 gal round and a 50 qt Ice Cube. The 5ver does a great job on smaller grain bills. The Ice Cube gets it's first run next weekend. I went with a CPVC manifold with a twist, I cut the slots long ways on the bottom. This is just an experiment to see what effect it has and how well it works.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=31964

I have a SS braid waiting in the wings and some copper tubing. I may just do all three to see which one works the best.

Karma

 

[Barley-Davidson]

OK, I decided on the cooler. From the advise I got here I realize that the 48 qt would be too big for a PM, but I wanted an ice chest style 'cause they're lots cheaper and it could double as a regular cooler in a pinch.
So, I picked up a small rectangle cooler (6 gal). I think this should be enough for AG batches up to about 1.060 and not be too big for a PM.

I'm still going with a manifold, but still haven't decided between CPVC and copper. I have ingredients on hand for 2 more extract brews, so that's 2 more weeks to decide and fabricate before the first PM.

Thanks for the opinions so far and I'll update on my progress

 

[brewitall]

Go copper, even if you have to buy a few extra tools for copper up front, you'll love the flexibility you get using copper.

I have all of my vessels and manifolds plumed with 1/2 MIP nipples and use the braides stainless covered hoses to move connections between chillers, or tranfering wort or sparging. Works great and you'll learn to plumb.