Conical/Unitank process.

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marjen

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So it looks like my new 14 gallon SS Brewtech Unitank should be here end of next week. This will be my first time using a unitank/conical for the fermentation process. I will be producing hoppy NE IPAs. This means lots of hop material in the conical. I am looking for some advise or tips from others who use conicals currently. for example:

1. When dumping trub, how do you know when to dump? I mean you can't really see inside like you can with a carboy. How do you know how much to dump? I dont want to lose to much beer but want to get as much out as possible.

2. To those who might have a unitank, when do you start carbing? Do you wait for fermentation to complete? Do you first add all dry hop additions? I will be adding 1 or 2 dry hops depending on recipe. I have heard dry hopping under pressure can be good, but if dry hopping under pressure then adding another round of dry hops, you would need to de pressurize which means all the aroma leaves the vessel which can't be good.

3. Along the same lines I would think you would need to wait until either cold crashing or end of process to carb, as I would think carbing at room temp for example then cold crashing and maybe continuing carbing might cause some issues?

Looking forward to the new process. I ordered the heating/cooling kit, but for now will be using a cooler with ice and a fish tank pump until I can afford glycol. Should be fine as now that fall/winter are approaching its usually 58-62 in the basement so will mostly need heating.

4. How is cleaning done via a CIP ball? Do you connect something up so that the water circulates? Or do you add water and let it dump out to a drain or something?
 
1. Do a dump as fermentation is nearing the end to get rid of a lot of the trub, then you'll have the good stuff to harvest afterwards.

2/3. You really should get a spunding valve setup. Have it under pressure during ferment, especially for your dank eepahs to make sure no O2 intake during dumps/cold crash etc. At room temp something like 30PSI is needed to carb a beer. So you can set your spunding up near there if you want to carb naturally. Otherwise when crashing just start feeding your 10-12psi.

4. Do a quick hose down to get the gunk out, then hook up a hose to recirc your PBW solution.
 
I thought the main benefit of the unitank was to naturally carbonate it during secondary stage of fermentation like a brite tank (after yeast/trub is dumped) ? Otherwise whats the real advantage over a conical and separate keg?

I bought a few 3 bble brite tanks and I was puzzled myself at the fact that they come with pressure relief valves for naturally carbing I assume as well as long carb stones.. I guess some do either or a combo of both?
 
I think most people typically use a carb stone in the unitank. The advantages seem to be saving time, doing it while fermentation completes, and carbing with a stone is supposed to be better than just carbing with pressure in a keg, dont quote me on this one.

Back to timing of dumping trub. Isn't there a concern if you wait to long it will get really hard and not drop? I have this issue with my fermentasaurus currently.
 
I thought the main benefit of the unitank was to naturally carbonate it during secondary stage of fermentation like a brite tank (after yeast/trub is dumped) ? Otherwise whats the real advantage over a conical and separate keg?

I bought a few 3 bble brite tanks and I was puzzled myself at the fact that they come with pressure relief valves for naturally carbing I assume as well as long carb stones.. I guess some do either or a combo of both?

I have the 14G uni tank on order same as Marjen. Yes, I think one of the benefits of the uni tank allows owners to close off the blow off tube ball valve near the end of fermentation and allow the beer to carb naturally. My plan will be to try this, and if I miss my carb level, I can always adjust with the carb stone as a back up. I can make final adjustments in keg of course, but this system will offer multiple advantages in this regard.
 
I think most people typically use a carb stone in the unitank. The advantages seem to be saving time, doing it while fermentation completes, and carbing with a stone is supposed to be better than just carbing with pressure in a keg, dont quote me on this one.

Back to timing of dumping trub. Isn't there a concern if you wait to long it will get really hard and not drop? I have this issue with my fermentasaurus currently.
I think I see what your saying but I would think if time really was an issue one would just transfer to a keg and force carb there freeing up the fermenter to make more beer?

from what Ive experienced my naturally carbed beers come out better than forced carbed beer especially if its not allowed to fully condition to save time in the process.

I can see wanting to cold crash and age beers this way so it naturally clears... but these things all eat up time as well as the high cost of the uni tanks so without a bunch of them this would be limiting really.

I dont even always bother dumping the yeast in my conical..(I often use a jaybird yeast catcher) . I have a few beers Ive brewed multiple times doing it either way and havent been able to tell any difference. I get extremely little trub in my conical due to the filtration and process before going it.

I guess I just see them having more value in a commercial brewery environment than most home brewing environments but I realize they are all different.
 
I think I see what your saying but I would think if time really was an issue one would just transfer to a keg and force carb there freeing up the fermenter to make more beer?

from what Ive experienced my naturally carbed beers come out better than forced carbed beer especially if its not allowed to fully condition to save time in the process.

I can see wanting to cold crash and age beers this way so it naturally clears... but these things all eat up time as well as the high cost of the uni tanks so without a bunch of them this would be limiting really.

I dont even always bother dumping the yeast in my conical..(I often use a jaybird yeast catcher) . I have a few beers Ive brewed multiple times doing it either way and havent been able to tell any difference. I get extremely little trub in my conical due to the filtration and process before going it.

I guess I just see them having more value in a commercial brewery environment than most home brewing environments but I realize they are all different.

My understanding is that it only takes about 24 hrs to get it up to the proper carb level when using the carb stone. I typically do NE IPAs. These ferment really fast. Realisitcally fermentation, dry hop, cold crash and carving could be done in 10-12 days. So that frees up the fermenter to brew once ever other weekend. Thats plenty when making 10 gallon batches, which I will be. If this works out well I would probably purchase another one next year so I could always have something fermenting if needed. 2 of these, with 1 glycol chiller would be one hell of a home brew setup.

As far as trub, because I do NE IPAs, I usually have about 8 oz of dry hops in the primary per 5 gallons, so with 10 gallon batches, thats a lot of trub, I am guessing 2 gallons worth. I will need to dump that or I am guessing I will not be able to get the beer out the transfer port. I will test the unit when it comes to see what the trub cutoff is, but guessing its probably 1 gallon or less before it would interfere with transfers. Now if I could just wait till the end, ferment, dry hop, crash, carb, then dump (maybe the pressure build up would help?) that would be great. Going to be some trial and error I assume first couple batches.
 
For NEIPAs even under pressure the whole shebang can be a lot to drop. Dropping prior to each dry hop is probably a good bet to make it easier. Stop dumping when it changes from solids/slurry to beer.

Of course, same logic applied as with 1 gal batches and hydrometer samples. Dumping until beer runs out is wastful, and the dump valve beteen a 20 gal tank and a 20 bbl tank could well be the same size.

With a unitank, hook up a PRV/spund valve, and close off fermentation a couple degrees plato above your (target) finishing gravity.

If you can outfit a carb stone in your tank you can dial it in really well, but closing off making things fast and saves gas.

Regarding CIP, use a pump, and either a cleaner reservoir, or just keep it in the cone, pump from the bottom up through the spray ball. Don't forgot to hit any auxiliary arms. I don't recall how SS unitanks are configured.
 
Just to be clear (there were a couple of ambiguous statements), when spunding, one does not just take whatever pressure one gets -- the tank should still be fitted with a pressure release valve to not blow the welds off the tank. These are often in the 15psi range, plenty to spund-carbonate beer.

When force carbonating, I typically do 30psi (in a keg rated for 60). If my unitank was rated at 15psi, I'd not want to take it up that high. Perhaps one could force/stone carb at 15psi, and just let it run a few extra days. I don't really know the math for partially-dissolved gasses, so will defer to experts on that part.
 
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