Conical owners - should I pull the trigger?

[Tom R]

Those who think it's a waste, how about a canner? Cannular at MoreBeer is $760 for the top of the line, throw in some cans and I'm at my $1000.

The last time I looked, an empty can with a lid, purchased in realistic quantities cost about 50 cents.
That was enough to turn me off the idea.

 

[doogie]

The last time I looked, an empty can with a lid, purchased in realistic quantities cost about 50 cents.
That was enough to turn me off the idea.

I'm sure I won't get a canner now that I think about it more...or is that drink about it...either way.

 

[matt_m]

Those who think it's a waste, how about a canner? Cannular at MoreBeer is $760 for the top of the line, throw in some cans and I'm at my $1000.

I just bought an Oktober SL1 this spring. Love it. Does a can make my beer better than a bottle? Hard to say. Did I enjoy handing out 4 packs to all my friends? Yes In fact I just ordered more cans today--stocking up with cans getting hard to get and more expensive.

It sounds like you've got a gift for a significant anniversary. I say spend it on something you will enjoy.

 

[grampamark]

If my employer offered me $1000 to buy myself a gift you could knock me over with a feather (I’m self-employed and my boss is a jerk ).

 

[Deric]

I refuse to accept conicals as practical ...

I refuse to accept homebrewing as practical.

Yet, here I am.

 

[bracconiere]

If my employer offered me $1000 to buy myself a gift you could knock me over with a feather (I’m self-employed and my boss is a jerk ).

at least you're in his head....

I refuse to accept homebrewing as practical.

Yet, here I am.

i refuse to accept your post!

 

[tripelthelightfantastic]

I bought a stainless conical with integrated cooling coil in the lid for better fermentation temp control.
The goal was to harvest yeast for reuse but I rarely do that, mostly brewing 8% Belgian styles that put the yeast through a tough time. And with every starter made , I make 3-4 vials and freeze for a future brew. So the best part of the conical for me is the better temp control pumping chilled water through the immersed coil, not the ability to harvest yeast.
But I would still buy one again!!

If you don’t have one, What about a kegging setup with kegerator?

Or something like this:
https://brouwland.com/en/electric-b...-deal-brew-monk-45-l-vergistingsvat-55-l.html

 

[BrewZer]

With a 4" TC lid the options are almost endless.

View attachment 749373

Edit: You can put one of these together yourself and save some money. I don't use one myself. I only use pellet hops for lagers. Anyway, here's a better answer to your question:

Do you need a license from the DEA to install that?

I'd say think about the 'running costs'. They're superfluous mainly and simply do not translate into better beer.

View attachment 749413

Do you need a license from NASA to run that?

 

[McMullan]

Do you need a license from NASA to install that?

 

[bwible]

The last time I looked, an empty can with a lid, purchased in realistic quantities cost about 50 cents.
That was enough to turn me off the idea.

We’ve been hearing about a national aluminum shortage for a year, too. Supposedly caused by the latest round of cheap canning machines that allow every brewery and microbrewery to be canning beer now. The big boys have responded by putting more of their beer in cans. Along with the rise of hard seltzer, which is all cans.

And bottling is bad enough, but how exactly do you can beer without major oxygen exposure that everybody is so concerned about?

 

[Nagorg]

I love my conical too. I'd only suggest you at least consider the CF10 since its not that much more and increases your batch size potential.

I will say that those kegmenters look interesting too. But I'm not too sure how I'd set it up with a thermowell and be able to take gravity samples.

Having a conical has been great. You wont be disappointed!

 

[McMullan]

But I'm not too sure how I'd set it up with a thermowell and be able to take gravity samples.

Allow me.

The flare is the key. It's a 'dip tube' essentially. The shim guarantees it stays put. My level of 'rocket science'.

Edit: I've tested it at about 50 psi. 30 psi is about the highest I set. So it works for me. Especially as there's nothing like it on the market. Make it yourself

 

[bwible]

replying to the T bond part
They want it to be a gift, something you normally wouldn't get. Until a few years ago you could get golf clubs at a high end fitter, jewelry from a high end jeweler (both local) or a gift from Tiffany's.

I don’t play golf and the only jewelry I ever wear is my wedding ring. So that would turn into a nice gift for my wife if it was me and those were my only choices. Got a big anniversary coming up or anything?

 

[Nate R]

And bottling is bad enough, but how exactly do you can beer without major oxygen exposure that everybody is so concerned about?

Why, it's just another few hundred dollars!! Lol.
https://www.morebeer.com/products/t...ling-station-complete-kit-magnetic-mount.htmlAnd you still need the the tap-a-filler thingy for this i think.
This thing sold out in like a week by the way.
And yeah i'm jealous. I'd love one! And a canner. Lol.

 

[Golddiggie]

For the OP... I have two Spike CF10 fermenters along with the goodies to fully utilize them. Chill coils in both and I purchased the heating pads recently since the room I ferment in is getting on the cooler side this winter. With the glycol chiller (IceMaster Max4 currently) I can easily get the batch to both fermenting temperatures (when the room is warmer), chilled for yeast harvesting, or chill even further to carbonate. All in fermenter. NOT moving the beer until it's ready for packaging is a great thing IME.

I'm waiting for Brewers Hardware to have one of their 15 gallon jacketed conical fermenters available for purchase. I want to see how they differ in real world use cases. Both have the 2" bottom dump valve for either yeast harvest or infusion. I have a yeast brink now, so I can do a sanitary yeast infusion into the wort post chill.

For canning, I have the Cannular Pro machine and it kicks the crap out of the manual version. I had issues getting good crimps with the manual, but not even a single issue with the pro model.

I have the original Tapcooler filler setup for filling cans direct from conical. No faucets or anything needed. I simply place a TC to liquid ball lock post fitting onto the racking arm valve on the conical and get to it. I do fill up a keg before canning the rest of the batch (I use either 2.5 or 3 gallon kegs, canning the balance of a 7-8 gallon batch).

For the record, I was using kegmenters for years. Last year I had built a fermentation chamber to better control temperatures. No way could I get the thing to carbonating temperatures, even if I wanted to. Not to mention the thing was large, to hold two to three fermenters, and took up a significant amount of space in the room I ferment in. I would have to shift it around to either get to things, or do projects. With the glycol chiller (on wheels) plus conical fermenters (also on wheels) I can move any one of those items to make it a non-issue. I wouldn't get another conical without wheels. Plus I'd make damned sure I have enough room to attach the yeast brink to the bottom for either yeast harvest or infusion. The short legs from Spike do the job there. The Brewers Hardware conical uses TC pipe for leg extensions.

With the changes I made, with the shift to using conicals, I can now have a batch go from grain to glass in two to three weeks. Depending on the recipe of course. With carbonating in conical, after fermentation is finished is a great thing. I do ferment under pressure, but typically only let it build to about 5psi. That's because of how the yeast will work at those pressure levels. I use one strain for the majority of my brews now (was using two, but changed earlier this year). I have an imperial stout on deck that will be using a different yeast.

 

[doogie]

For the OP... I have two Spike CF10 fermenters along with the goodies to fully utilize them. Chill coils in both and I purchased the heating pads recently since the room I ferment in is getting on the cooler side this winter. With the glycol chiller (IceMaster Max4 currently) I can easily get the batch to both fermenting temperatures (when the room is warmer), chilled for yeast harvesting, or chill even further to carbonate. All in fermenter. NOT moving the beer until it's ready for packaging is a great thing IME.

I'm waiting for Brewers Hardware to have one of their 15 gallon jacketed conical fermenters available for purchase. I want to see how they differ in real world use cases. Both have the 2" bottom dump valve for either yeast harvest or infusion. I have a yeast brink now, so I can do a sanitary yeast infusion into the wort post chill.

For canning, I have the Cannular Pro machine and it kicks the crap out of the manual version. I had issues getting good crimps with the manual, but not even a single issue with the pro model.

I have the original Tapcooler filler setup for filling cans direct from conical. No faucets or anything needed. I simply place a TC to liquid ball lock post fitting onto the racking arm valve on the conical and get to it. I do fill up a keg before canning the rest of the batch (I use either 2.5 or 3 gallon kegs, canning the balance of a 7-8 gallon batch).

For the record, I was using kegmenters for years. Last year I had built a fermentation chamber to better control temperatures. No way could I get the thing to carbonating temperatures, even if I wanted to. Not to mention the thing was large, to hold two to three fermenters, and took up a significant amount of space in the room I ferment in. I would have to shift it around to either get to things, or do projects. With the glycol chiller (on wheels) plus conical fermenters (also on wheels) I can move any one of those items to make it a non-issue. I wouldn't get another conical without wheels. Plus I'd make damned sure I have enough room to attach the yeast brink to the bottom for either yeast harvest or infusion. The short legs from Spike do the job there. The Brewers Hardware conical uses TC pipe for leg extensions.

With the changes I made, with the shift to using conicals, I can now have a batch go from grain to glass in two to three weeks. Depending on the recipe of course. With carbonating in conical, after fermentation is finished is a great thing. I do ferment under pressure, but typically only let it build to about 5psi. That's because of how the yeast will work at those pressure levels. I use one strain for the majority of my brews now (was using two, but changed earlier this year). I have an imperial stout on deck that will be using a different yeast.

Thanks for your thoughts. You have all the toys.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Spike Flex+ since I brew in my garage (propane and steam venting), but ferment and dispense in my basement, I need to transport my wort downstairs. I think the Spike Flex+ with most of the bells and whistles will fit the bill and I cobbled together a cart for $1001 and I think the only thing I'm missing is a 12"x1.5" TC Spool Tube12"x1.5" TC Spool Tube to allow no oxygen dry hop under pressure. I figure if a 5" x 1.5" sight glass holds 3 oz of hop pellets (not enough), then 12" should hold 8 oz which is a few more than I've been doing and I don't have to fiddle with reducers or using the 4" port that will be occupied by a cooling coil.

I don't have a floor drain and I haven't been harvesting yeast (maybe when I retire) so I don't really need the CF5, and I don't need to drink any more than I'm drinking now, and I like trying new recipes, so I'll stay with the 5-7 gallon size. Currently I have an Anvil Bucket fermenter in a dedicated fermentation chamber as my only fermenter, so ....

 

[Dland]

I pump wort through cooler and send in a tube downstairs to fermentor. If what you have to carry is a little much for stairs, and you want ideas, I can post a photo of my wort transfer to cellar.

 

[McMullan]

For the OP... I have two Spike CF10 fermenters along with the goodies to fully utilize them. Chill coils in both and I purchased the heating pads recently since the room I ferment in is getting on the cooler side this winter. With the glycol chiller (IceMaster Max4 currently) I can easily get the batch to both fermenting temperatures (when the room is warmer), chilled for yeast harvesting, or chill even further to carbonate. All in fermenter. NOT moving the beer until it's ready for packaging is a great thing IME.

I'm waiting for Brewers Hardware to have one of their 15 gallon jacketed conical fermenters available for purchase. I want to see how they differ in real world use cases. Both have the 2" bottom dump valve for either yeast harvest or infusion. I have a yeast brink now, so I can do a sanitary yeast infusion into the wort post chill.

For canning, I have the Cannular Pro machine and it kicks the crap out of the manual version. I had issues getting good crimps with the manual, but not even a single issue with the pro model.

I have the original Tapcooler filler setup for filling cans direct from conical. No faucets or anything needed. I simply place a TC to liquid ball lock post fitting onto the racking arm valve on the conical and get to it. I do fill up a keg before canning the rest of the batch (I use either 2.5 or 3 gallon kegs, canning the balance of a 7-8 gallon batch).

For the record, I was using kegmenters for years. Last year I had built a fermentation chamber to better control temperatures. No way could I get the thing to carbonating temperatures, even if I wanted to. Not to mention the thing was large, to hold two to three fermenters, and took up a significant amount of space in the room I ferment in. I would have to shift it around to either get to things, or do projects. With the glycol chiller (on wheels) plus conical fermenters (also on wheels) I can move any one of those items to make it a non-issue. I wouldn't get another conical without wheels. Plus I'd make damned sure I have enough room to attach the yeast brink to the bottom for either yeast harvest or infusion. The short legs from Spike do the job there. The Brewers Hardware conical uses TC pipe for leg extensions.

With the changes I made, with the shift to using conicals, I can now have a batch go from grain to glass in two to three weeks. Depending on the recipe of course. With carbonating in conical, after fermentation is finished is a great thing. I do ferment under pressure, but typically only let it build to about 5psi. That's because of how the yeast will work at those pressure levels. I use one strain for the majority of my brews now (was using two, but changed earlier this year). I have an imperial stout on deck that will be using a different yeast.

Yes, kegmenters are relatively wide. They're basically stackable beer kegs with 4" TC ferrules. A big fridge is definitely useful. I think I could get at least 2 stacks of 3 in my corner fridge.

Or 3 in a medium sized keezer.

I think the pressure rating is much higher than most conicals. They've transformed how I brew. If I need to, I can go from grain to glass* within a week to 10 days and little more than 2 weeks for a decent pilsner. Being kegs they are great for serving too. I find them easier the clean than my plastic Speidel 30L FVs. The design is refreshingly simple and currently works for me. I don't think they can be matched for either the money or their functionality. To get a conical that can do what a kegmenter can is going to cost considerably more than doogie's budget. At the moment I have more than enough space to accommodate my brewing adventures in the basement. If we every sold up and moved to a smaller place, which we might in a few years, then I'd consider a conical due to the smaller footprint required for brewing. This is the only genuine benefit I see in conicals.

Edit: *Using authentic yeast strains to match the bee style. Not kveik!

 

[Oleson M.D.]

We have 6 conical stainless fermenters, 3 of which are the 8 gallon size from Delta Brewing.
They are nice, easy to clean, and yeast harvesting is a snap with the bottom drain.
These will also last a lifetime. And...they do not pick up odors as plastic ferment vessels will.

 

[Golddiggie]

Thanks for your thoughts. You have all the toys.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Spike Flex+ since I brew in my garage (propane and steam venting), but ferment and dispense in my basement, I need to transport my wort downstairs. I think the Spike Flex+ with most of the bells and whistles will fit the bill and I cobbled together a cart for $1001 and I think the only thing I'm missing is a 12"x1.5" TC Spool Tube12"x1.5" TC Spool Tube to allow no oxygen dry hop under pressure. I figure if a 5" x 1.5" sight glass holds 3 oz of hop pellets (not enough), then 12" should hold 8 oz which is a few more than I've been doing and I don't have to fiddle with reducers or using the 4" port that will be occupied by a cooling coil.

I don't have a floor drain and I haven't been harvesting yeast (maybe when I retire) so I don't really need the CF5, and I don't need to drink any more than I'm drinking now, and I like trying new recipes, so I'll stay with the 5-7 gallon size. Currently I have an Anvil Bucket fermenter in a dedicated fermentation chamber as my only fermenter, so ....

I have a 1-1/2" TC sight glass that was crammed with 3oz of hop pellets. I wouldn't advise trying that much in that size sight glass. I also do the CO2 purged dry hop addition method with this. IME, 2oz of hops gives my ales a very nice additional hop flavor and aroma where I want it. YMMV.

@McMullan Absolutely zero chance in hell I'm lifting a filled kegmenter into a chest freezer. I was able to get my tall 1/4 barrel kegmenter into the fermentation chamber. That's with the top opening (gas springs) as well as the end being a door for easier access. The time we used the 1/2 barrel kegmenter (for a 12 gallon end volume batch) was not something I'll willingly repeat. The ease of moving the conical fermenters (since they're on wheels) makes it a slam dunk. Plus, I brew alone these days so everything has to be setup with that in mind. I have the can filling/sealing system setup on a rolling wire mesh cart (stainless) so that everything is right next to each other. The majority of my changes, over the past year or so, have all been geared towards making the process easier on myself. Including going electric for the HLT and BK, along with a very nice control panel mounted to the brew stand.

My current brewing and fermenting areas are all on the same floor/level. When I move (hopefully this coming year) I'll be looking to do the same kind of setup. Since I use electric, along with a steam condensing lid, I don't have to brew in the garage, or outside. If I end up brewing in a room that doesn't drain to the outside, I'll look to put in a dry well (at the very least) and/or floor drain to take care of that. IME, with electric you have a LOT more options for where you can brew safely. With the steam condenser lid options available, that means you don't need to invest a ton of money into a hood setup.

 

[user 298779]

Thanks for your thoughts. You have all the toys.

Right now I'm leaning towards the Spike Flex+ since I brew in my garage (propane and steam venting), but ferment and dispense in my basement, I need to transport my wort downstairs. I think the Spike Flex+ with most of the bells and whistles will fit the bill and I cobbled together a cart for $1001 and I think the only thing I'm missing is a 12"x1.5" TC Spool Tube12"x1.5" TC Spool Tube to allow no oxygen dry hop under pressure. I figure if a 5" x 1.5" sight glass holds 3 oz of hop pellets (not enough), then 12" should hold 8 oz which is a few more than I've been doing and I don't have to fiddle with reducers or using the 4" port that will be occupied by a cooling coil.

I don't have a floor drain and I haven't been harvesting yeast (maybe when I retire) so I don't really need the CF5, and I don't need to drink any more than I'm drinking now, and I like trying new recipes, so I'll stay with the 5-7 gallon size. Currently I have an Anvil Bucket fermenter in a dedicated fermentation chamber as my only fermenter, so ....

Doogie it seems to me you’re on the right track. The decision has many factors by the way you seem to be thinking this through.

I like bracconiere’s comment on buying some t- bills with the money, but that’s just not something we homebrewers do with new-found money!

Having to move your fermenter to basement is terrible, and the older you get the more challenging it becomes. That said, weight and portability are important factors to me. with that in mind, I would not buy a CF5 right now given size, weight, and ability to carry it down stairs. The Flex+ is easier to carry (though Spike says not to carry them by the handles when full).

Don‘t get me wrong, I really like the Spike CF’s and Flex+ fermenters and own each, but I ferment on same level I brew, keg, and serve. You and I probably did a lot of the same DIY work for brewing hardware in the 90’s, so what’s available now is incredible. I decided to go stainless for fermenters years back for a lot of reasons, and conicals are top notch for me - but I admit the cool factor was big part of decision at that time.

Now that my blah blah blah above is finished, if you really want a stainless conical fermenter I highly suggest the loaded Flex+ - and you can check on their Black Friday sale this week and score a great deal.

Final food for thought: if you have to room to ferment in garage or on same level you brew I’d highly recommend a glycol chiller for temp control Instead. I have a Penguin chiller and would not want to be without it. It would even be good to have if you still have to ferment in basement. I’ve used chest freezers, vertical freezers, and refrigerator as fermentation chambers - nothing compares to glycol system and it opens up new options. Minimizes lifting kegs as well.

Hope this helps. Let us know what you decide.

Cheers

KBW.

 

[Chorgey]

I just fill out the request, my office has to purchase. I know it will end up costing me a couple hundred more to get me where I would like.

You can always ask for a $1000 gift card and wait for a sale

 

[McMullan]

I have a 1-1/2" TC sight glass that was crammed with 3oz of hop pellets. I wouldn't advise trying that much in that size sight glass. I also do the CO2 purged dry hop addition method with this. IME, 2oz of hops gives my ales a very nice additional hop flavor and aroma where I want it. YMMV.

@McMullan Absolutely zero chance in hell I'm lifting a filled kegmenter into a chest freezer. I was able to get my tall 1/4 barrel kegmenter into the fermentation chamber. That's with the top opening (gas springs) as well as the end being a door for easier access. The time we used the 1/2 barrel kegmenter (for a 12 gallon end volume batch) was not something I'll willingly repeat. The ease of moving the conical fermenters (since they're on wheels) makes it a slam dunk. Plus, I brew alone these days so everything has to be setup with that in mind. I have the can filling/sealing system setup on a rolling wire mesh cart (stainless) so that everything is right next to each other. The majority of my changes, over the past year or so, have all been geared towards making the process easier on myself. Including going electric for the HLT and BK, along with a very nice control panel mounted to the brew stand.

My current brewing and fermenting areas are all on the same floor/level. When I move (hopefully this coming year) I'll be looking to do the same kind of setup. Since I use electric, along with a steam condensing lid, I don't have to brew in the garage, or outside. If I end up brewing in a room that doesn't drain to the outside, I'll look to put in a dry well (at the very least) and/or floor drain to take care of that. IME, with electric you have a LOT more options for where you can brew safely. With the steam condenser lid options available, that means you don't need to invest a ton of money into a hood setup.

Well it sounds like it's working for you and that's the main thing. It might work for me one day. Horses for courses, as they say. I wouldn't attempt to put a full kegmenter into a keezer on my tod either. I'd definitely pressure transfer finished beer into an empty kegmenter or get a second pair of hands help.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

Lifting 5 gallons into our chest freezer is not an issue, as I can do that solo.
But 7.5 gallons is heavy, and my wife, my neighbor, or other friends assist with the heavy lifting.
It is manageable.

 

[Ogilthorpe2]

Tough thread to muscle through…what with all the Kegmenter fanboyism and all.

 

[McMullan]

Tough thread to muscle through…what with all the Kegmenter fanboyism and all.

 

[Nate R]

Hey @McMullan...

A big fridge is definitely useful. I think I could get at least 2 stacks of 3 in my corner fridge.

Is that a "stock" fridge or a fridge that one could easily find at a regular retail outlet? I have never seen a fridge like that.

 

[4_Sons_Brewing]

I got a Spike CF10 as part of an all in one deal I picked up - didn’t seek it out specifically, but after 2 brews I wouldn’t give it up! Easy to clean with the CIP ball, drain of trub after a day or so and no heavy lifting buckets or risking glass carboy drops (which I’ve done). Someone else’s money - I say go for it.

 

[McMullan]

Hey @McMullan...

Is that a "stock" fridge or a fridge that one could easily find at a regular retail outlet? I have never seen a fridge like that.

It's a Norcool corner fridge. It's a bit of a Tardis.

 

[Nagorg]

@McMullan

FYI... Love the Iron Maiden Book of Souls Avatar! I'm a long time Iron Maiden fan... My first concert ever was The Scorpions and Iron Maiden on the "Blackout" and "Beast on the Road" tour. I've seen Maiden multiple times when they come to DFW!