Conan The Bluebarian (milkshake DIPA)

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

elburrogrande

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
183
Reaction score
38
Brewing this one on Monday. Let me know if you have any thoughts. Thanks.

Batch size= 6gallons, 5.5gl into fermenter
ABV= 9.7%
OG=1.082
FG= 1.013


Grains:
pale 2 row 50.6%
pilsner 12.7%
flaked oats 17.7%
white wheat 10.1%
acid malt 3.8%

other:
12oz Lactose boil 10 minutes
Apple puree 1lb boil 10 min
5oz hibiscus boil 10min or dryhop
5g salt boil 10 min
yeast nutrient boil 5 minutes

Hops:
.75oz Columbus FWH (60 min boil)
1oz Mosaic/ 1oz Belma whirlpool 185° 20 minutes
1oz Mozaic/ 1oz Belma whirlpool 170° 20 minutes

preload fermenter with 2oz belma

3oz El Dorado / 1oz Nelson Sauvin day 2 of active fermentation
3oz Nelson Sauvin/ 1oz El Dorado 2-3 days before kegging

Fruit:
6lbs Blueberries added day 2-3 to fermenter

Yeast:
Conan, finish with 3711

Water:
100% distilled water
6g gypsum
7g CaCl

about 200 Cl / 100 SO4

Mash:
2 hour reiterated mash using grainfather @ 148°
 
Last edited:

aeviaanah

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Messages
1,615
Reaction score
181
This recipe looks well developed! Good luck. I'll be sticking around to head results!
 

crusader1612

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
1,497
Reaction score
184
Location
Christchurch
Brewing this one on Monday. Let me know if you have any thoughts. Thanks.

Batch size= 6gallons
ABV= 9.5%
estimated OG=1.089
estimated FG= 1.016


Grains:
pale 2 row 50.6%
pilsner 12.7%
flaked oats 17.7%
white wheat 10.1%
acid malt 3.8%

other:
1lb Lactose boil 10 minutes
Apple puree (not sure how much yet) boil 10 min
2.5oz hibiscus boil 10min
5g salt boil 10 min
yeast nutrient boil 5 minutes

Hops:
.75oz Columbus FWH (60 min boil)
1oz Mosaic/ 1oz Belma whirlpool 185° 20 minutes
1oz Mozaic/ 1oz Belma whirlpool 170° 20 minutes

preload fermenter with 2oz belma

3oz El Dorado / 1oz Galaxy day 2 of active fermentation
3oz Galaxy/ 1oz El Dorado 2-3 days before kegging

Fruit:
6lbs Blueberries added day 2-3 to fermenter

Yeast:
Conan

Water:
100% distilled water
6g gypsum
7g CaCl

about 200 Cl / 100 SO4

Mash:
2 hour reiterated mash using grainfather @ 148°
* halve your lactose amount
* whats the salt for?
* Add a vanilla bean when you dryhop
* i personally dont like the idea of apple puree just for haze. excessive hopping which you have should sort plenty of haze along with oats wheat and a low flocc yeast, all of which you have.
* is the hibiscus for colour?
 

aeviaanah

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2012
Messages
1,615
Reaction score
181
* halve your lactose amount

* whats the salt for?

* Add a vanilla bean when you dryhop

* i personally dont like the idea of apple puree just for haze. excessive hopping which you have should sort plenty of haze along with oats wheat and a low flocc yeast, all of which you have.

* is the hibiscus for colour?
+1 on the apple. Not needed if it's for haze.
 

isomerization

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
1,419
Reaction score
875
My experience with 1318 is that it attenuates really well (especially <152 F mash). So I'd expect that you'd need the whole 1 lb of lactose to keep the FG anywhere near the 1.016 he is expecting. I would definitely include at least 1 vanilla bean tincture in the keg/bottling bucket.

I think the apple puree is for haze as well as the super thick, milkshake like texture. Fruit pectins react with sugars in the wort when boiled and become very thick. Apples are very high in pectins. I believe this is how jelly/jam is made? I haven't tried using it before, so can't comment on keeping or tossing. I think several commercial breweries do use it for their milkshake IPAs though.
 
OP
E

elburrogrande

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
183
Reaction score
38
* halve your lactose amount
* whats the salt for?
* Add a vanilla bean when you dryhop
* i personally dont like the idea of apple puree just for haze. excessive hopping which you have should sort plenty of haze along with oats wheat and a low flocc yeast, all of which you have.
* is the hibiscus for colour?
I use salt to get the cl to 200 while keeping ca low. Also love what it does to fruit flavors.

+1 on vanilla, ill add it to dry hop

Apple puree is what Jean from Tiredhands claim they use for pectin. So I thought id give it a try

The hibiscus is exactly for that. Just appearance.
 
OP
E

elburrogrande

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
183
Reaction score
38
Im debating using less lactose but Im only sitting at 5% as it is. From what I read people use about 9-10%
 
OP
E

elburrogrande

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
183
Reaction score
38
My experience with 1318 is that it attenuates really well (especially <152 F mash). So I'd expect that you'd need the whole 1 lb of lactose to keep the FG anywhere near the 1.016 he is expecting. I would definitely include at least 1 vanilla bean tincture in the keg/bottling bucket.

I think the apple puree is for haze as well as the super thick, milkshake like texture. Fruit pectins react with sugars in the wort when boiled and become very thick. Apples are very high in pectins. I believe this is how jelly/jam is made? I haven't tried using it before, so can't comment on keeping or tossing. I think several commercial breweries do use it for their milkshake IPAs though.
I have never brewed using apples before but this is good info. Thanks! Im actually using Conan yeast which is not as high attenuator. But I am hoping I can still get to 1.016
 

crusader1612

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
1,497
Reaction score
184
Location
Christchurch
I use salt to get the cl to 200 while keeping ca low. Also love what it does to fruit flavors.



+1 on vanilla, ill add it to dry hop



Apple puree is what Jean from Tiredhands claim they use for pectin. So I thought id give it a try



The hibiscus is exactly for that. Just appearance.

Cool.
Keep us posted.
I thought the salt might be for that. If worth checking.

If you use enough fruit I wouldn't bother with hibiscus. But given the amount your using it's probably worthwhile for that red appearance.

Still don't think Apple purée is worth the hassle, considering what it could add. Plus if your using lactose there'll be plenty of thickness there already.

Definitely halve your lactose if your going Conan.
 
OP
E

elburrogrande

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
183
Reaction score
38
Brewed this yesterday. Overall very smooth brew day. I ended up cutting down to 12oz of Lactose. Decided to stay with the apple since I have never used it and wanted to see the difference if any. Ill also be using Nelson Sauvin instead of Galaxy. Feel it will compliment the berry flavors much better. I did miss my OG and only got 1.082. IT was already chugging away this morning so Ill be adding the next round of dry hops along with fruit on Wednesday.
 

CrimsonYeti

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2015
Messages
271
Reaction score
36
How much apple puree did you add?
Also with the blueberries are the fresh or puree? How did you treat them before the go in?
 
OP
E

elburrogrande

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
183
Reaction score
38
I added about 1lb of apple sauce with about 10 minutes left in the boil. The blueberries, I was able to get 6lbs of frozen blueberries. I thawed them out, smashed them and placed them back in the freezer. Ill just thaw them out again and place them on a mesh bag into the primary.
 

NickersonC

Active Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
40
Reaction score
3
Whoah, a lot going on here. I doubt you'll get to 1.016 with the high OG and conan yeast alongside all the lactose, fruit, oats, wheat, etc, but I guess that's the point. Is the late addition of salt (as opposed to early) to reduce the way it would affect the hop utilization of the fwh? I ask because I am under the impression that higher ratios of brewing salts result in higher hop 'cripness', which is what I assume you are trying to avoid to a point. Just a hypothesis.

I was going to argue against the apple until you said Tired Hands. I'm sold.

Just curious as to why you're going with the hibiscus? I understand it's for color, and apparently is effective is doing so, but since its a blueberry shake, why go for the pink?

I'd personally stick with the galaxy, but up to you; I'm not as familiar with NS. I also love the vanilla bean, all out shake mode.
 

crusader1612

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
1,497
Reaction score
184
Location
Christchurch
Brewed this yesterday. Overall very smooth brew day. I ended up cutting down to 12oz of Lactose. Decided to stay with the apple since I have never used it and wanted to see the difference if any. Ill also be using Nelson Sauvin instead of Galaxy. Feel it will compliment the berry flavors much better. I did miss my OG and only got 1.082. IT was already chugging away this morning so Ill be adding the next round of dry hops along with fruit on Wednesday.
Never thought of Using NS instead of Galaxy - nice idea.

although Vis Secret is a toned down version of Galaxy supposedly.

On a side note, please when its ready, give feedback on this.

Pictures of the beer in a glass, OG / FG
give you taste notes as well.
Please can you also make sure you pay close attention to what the apple does to the beer, mostly flavor and appearance really.

Lastly, note how the hope flavors meld with red berry fruits likeraspbery, blueberry etc.

its probably alot to ask, but i think there are quite a few people interested in the outcome :) :) so it'd be good to get detailed feedback.
 

anteater8

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Messages
323
Reaction score
285
Location
Portland
I have a Mango Milkshake IPA on tap right now.

Its fantastic, this is definitely one my my favorite IPA's I've brewed. Appearance is basically the same as all my other NEIPAs. Aroma is strong mango, more in a hoppy than fruit way though, and pineapple. Taste is a lot of mango, again in more of a hoppy way, some dank, and creamy sweetness. The mouthfeel is where its at, this is just hands down the fullest and juiciest IPA I've made. Overall its not as milkshakey as I expected. It pretty much tastes like a Citra/Mosaic NEIPA with a creamier mouthfeel and an emphasis on the mango, but man I love it.

For your recipe, I'd keep the 1lb lactose, and consider 1.5 vanilla beans. I put diced apples in the mash and I can't say it added anything, I would try puree in the boil next time just to see.



The recipe:

O.G 1.067

78% 2 row
10% Flaked oats
7% Lactose (flameout)
5% Wheat
3 diced apples (in the mash)

Mashed 152

0.75 oz Columbus (60 min)
2 oz Citra (whirlpool)
2 oz Mosaic (whirlpool)
2 oz Citra dry hop (primary)
2 oz Mosaic dry hop (primary)
2 oz Citra dry hop (2 days)
2 oz Mosaic dry hop 2 days)

1 vanilla bean (7 days)
5 lb frozen mango (7 days)
 

crusader1612

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
1,497
Reaction score
184
Location
Christchurch
I have a Mango Milkshake IPA on tap right now.

Its fantastic, this is definitely one my my favorite IPA's I've brewed. Appearance is basically the same as all my other NEIPAs. Aroma is strong mango, more in a hoppy than fruit way though, and pineapple. Taste is a lot of mango, again in more of a hoppy way, some dank, and creamy sweetness. The mouthfeel is where its at, this is just hands down the fullest and juiciest IPA I've made. Overall its not as milkshakey as I expected. It pretty much tastes like a Citra/Mosaic NEIPA with a creamier mouthfeel and an emphasis on the mango, but man I love it.

For your recipe, I'd keep the 1lb lactose, and consider 1.5 vanilla beans. I put diced apples in the mash and I can't say it added anything, I would try puree in the boil next time just to see.



The recipe:

O.G 1.067

78% 2 row
10% Flaked oats
7% Lactose (flameout)
5% Wheat
3 diced apples (in the mash)

Mashed 152

0.75 oz Columbus (60 min)
2 oz Citra (whirlpool)
2 oz Mosaic (whirlpool)
2 oz Citra dry hop (primary)
2 oz Mosaic dry hop (primary)
2 oz Citra dry hop (2 days)
2 oz Mosaic dry hop 2 days)

1 vanilla bean (7 days)
5 lb frozen mango (7 days)
i think the reasoning behind your lack of mango fruit flavor(not includinghops) is not enough mango - i've been told 1.5lbs per gallon to get some good flavor
 

anteater8

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Messages
323
Reaction score
285
Location
Portland
i think the reasoning behind your lack of mango fruit flavor(not includinghops) is not enough mango - i've been told 1.5lbs per gallon to get some good flavor
I believe it. I'm not sure if its worth it to me cost wise, spending so much on fruit for a beer that's going to be gone in a few weeks. Not to mention, I probably lost 1.5 gallons of beer to the mango.

I'd like to try this recipe with peach, but same problem with needing a lot of fruit. I'm really curious to hear how the blueberry version on the OG post comes out.
 

crusader1612

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
1,497
Reaction score
184
Location
Christchurch
I believe it. I'm not sure if its worth it to me cost wise, spending so much on fruit for a beer that's going to be gone in a few weeks. Not to mention, I probably lost 1.5 gallons of beer to the mango.

I'd like to try this recipe with peach, but same problem with needing a lot of fruit. I'm really curious to hear how the blueberry version on the OG post comes out.
IMO you need ALOT of Peach to get the flavor in there, in sours I use 2-2.5 lbs per gallon.
 
OP
E

elburrogrande

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
183
Reaction score
38
Just a little update. Yesterday I took a sample and it was a medley of berry flavors. This was without the fruit addition just from the hops which makes me want to brew a standard NEIPA with mosaic and belma. Anyhow, I added the 6lbs of blueberries, 3oz of el dorado, 1oz of nelson sauvin. gravity sample was at 1.050
 

crusader1612

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
1,497
Reaction score
184
Location
Christchurch
Just a little update. Yesterday I took a sample and it was a medley of berry flavors. This was without the fruit addition just from the hops which makes me want to brew a standard NEIPA with mosaic and belma. Anyhow, I added the 6lbs of blueberries, 3oz of el dorado, 1oz of nelson sauvin. gravity sample was at 1.050
grande, what day into ferment was this? (day 3-4? for biotransformation?) or later?
 
OP
E

elburrogrande

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
183
Reaction score
38
grande, what day into ferment was this? (day 3-4? for biotransformation?) or later?
This was day 3 into fermentation. I actually kegged it yesterday and sample was CRAZY aromatic and tasted like olallieberries. Color was spot on too. I do have a few things ill do different next time, Ill post a full review with a pic in a few days.

OG was 1.082
FG was 1.013
 
OP
E

elburrogrande

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
183
Reaction score
38
If anyone can help with the alcohol calculation that would be awesome. Specially with 6lbs of blueberries. Otherwise id say this is somewhere between 9.1 and 9.7% abv :)
 

PlinyTheMiddleAged

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
377
Reaction score
105
Google says that blueberries are about 10% sugar by weight (15 g of sugar in 148 g of berries). With 6 lbs going into (I assume) 6 gallons, that's like adding 0.1 lbs of sugar per gallon. A pound of sugar raises the gravity of a gallon of water to 1.046, so a tenth of a pound will raise it to 1.0046. If your og was 1.082 without berries, it's now 1.0866.

The ABV (from a calculator) of a beer fermented from 1.087 to 1.013 is 9.7%. That's a big one!
 

NickersonC

Active Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
40
Reaction score
3
That doesn't take into account the water you might have picked up from the blueberries, though. I'm no expert, but read an article recently on BYO or something that said in a beer this strong you may have actually lost a few gravity points from the water you picked up.
 
OP
E

elburrogrande

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
183
Reaction score
38
Google says that blueberries are about 10% sugar by weight (15 g of sugar in 148 g of berries). With 6 lbs going into (I assume) 6 gallons, that's like adding 0.1 lbs of sugar per gallon. A pound of sugar raises the gravity of a gallon of water to 1.046, so a tenth of a pound will raise it to 1.0046. If your og was 1.082 without berries, it's now 1.0866.

The ABV (from a calculator) of a beer fermented from 1.087 to 1.013 is 9.7%. That's a big one!
Using the more accurate formula for high gravity beers this one is 9.7% without blueberries. If the og is bumped up to 1.0866 the alcohol bumps up to 10.3%! Yikes! But like the nick points out that doesn't take into account the water added. However, i think the amount of water is small. I had 5.5 gallons going into fermenter and 5 made it to the keg!
 
OP
E

elburrogrande

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
183
Reaction score
38
Btw this is the formula

ABV =(76.08 * (og-fg) / (1.775-og)) * (fg / 0.794)
 
OP
E

elburrogrande

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
183
Reaction score
38
Ill start with things ill adjust. 2.5 ozof hibiscus at 10 boil didnt do much for color. Ended up adding another 2.5oz to fermenter. I think next time ill just add 5 oz to dry hop schedule. Also did not use a big enough starter. Next time ill use a 2L 1.060 starter. It got stuck around 1.035, I used 3711 yeast to finish it out. Its a trick ive used with other big neipas with great success. Other than that the beer is gorgeous. Everyone keeps saying its the best they've had. My gf stated it couldn't be more than 6% alcohol when i asked her to guess. This is similar to others who have tasted it. I was worried it wouldnt taste like an ipa but bitterness is spot on. I did increase bittering addition to .82 oz of ctz. Ill post a full review tomorrow.
 

crusader1612

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 20, 2012
Messages
1,497
Reaction score
184
Location
Christchurch
Ill start with things ill adjust. 2.5 ozof hibiscus at 10 boil didnt do much for color. Ended up adding another 2.5oz to fermenter. I think next time ill just add 5 oz to dry hop schedule. Also did not use a big enough starter. Next time ill use a 2L 1.060 starter. It got stuck around 1.035, I used 3711 yeast to finish it out. Its a trick ive used with other big neipas with great success. Other than that the beer is gorgeous. Everyone keeps saying its the best they've had. My gf stated it couldn't be more than 6% alcohol when i asked her to guess. This is similar to others who have tasted it. I was worried it wouldnt taste like an ipa but bitterness is spot on. I did increase bittering addition to .82 oz of ctz. Ill post a full review tomorrow.

Nice work. Your bittering addition was just at 60 not FWH or anything?
 

indymedic

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
172
Reaction score
32
Location
Sheridan
Tasting notes please. Reading the recipe it seems like this beer would be a muddled mess of flavors. Are you able to identify all of the flavors in this beer?
 
OP
E

elburrogrande

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
183
Reaction score
38
Appearance – Depending on how the light hits it, it is a beautiful cherry red to sangria color. Has about a finger of pinkish head that dissipates to half a finger pretty quickly. Took extra caution not to have any floaties as I have read in milkshake IPA's. Really wanted this too look appealing and I'd say I succeeded.

Smell – Just a ton of fruit and pine. You don't even have to get close to smell this one. You can smell it from 3 feet away. Don't smell much vanilla, Mostly smells of berries and pine. I had some olallieberry pie and the best way I can describe it is just fresh crushed olallieberries. Has some earthiness and wine characteristics.

Taste – The vanilla is there and so is the hibiscus but you have to know it is there to detect it. people have said it tastes like a raspberry smoothie. Flavor is on par with the nose. It is slightly tart with citricy cranberry, grape, blueberry, raspberry notes. Sweetness is minimal. Bitterness is spot on. Id describe it as mild. Really was worried it wouldn't taste like an IPA but definitely drinks like one.

Mouthfeel – very well balanced with moderate body. Not sure if it is the lactose or oats but I'd describe it as creamy. Has some silkiness to the texture. Don't get much alcohol, really does feel like you're drinking a low alcoholic brew.

overall – Dangerously drinkable for a 9.7%ish beer. slightly tart, earthy, piny, berry punch or sangria. I mean whatever berry you can think of you can probably detect it in this one. Id go with cranberries, blueberries, and raspberries as most dominant, but for sure there are hints of strawberry, gooseberries, wine, blackberry, amongst others. I was thinking this one would last a while due to the high alcohol but I can't stop drinking it. Next time Ill probably go with a full pound of lactose instead of 12oz although I am enjoying the fact that it finished out at 1.013 and sweetness is so low. overall this is just a gorgeous looking beer that tastes as good as it looks.
 
OP
E

elburrogrande

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
183
Reaction score
38
Tasting notes please. Reading the recipe it seems like this beer would be a muddled mess of flavors. Are you able to identify all of the flavors in this beer?
You are right. I was thinking the blueberries would be dominant but there is a lot going on. The hops come through and produce a ton of flavors. Very complex beer.
 
OP
E

elburrogrande

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2016
Messages
183
Reaction score
38
For those keeping track. I brewed this on 4/10, added dry hop and fruits on 4/13. removed belma prehop on 4/15. removed first dry hops and added second dry hop charge on 4/17. kegged on 4/21. grain to glass in 11 days.
 
Top