Commercial example of diacetyl?

[maltMonkey]

I have read many warnings about diacetyl and how you should avoid the "butter popcorn" flavor by doing diacetyl rests. I have never worried about diacetyl because I've never actually tasted it in any beer--homebrew or commercial.

Are there any beers commercially available that have a good amount of diacetyl? I just want to sample one or two so I know what I should be avoiding....

 

[cubbies]

Supposedly Pilsner Urquell. I havent had it in a long time, but I dont remember tasting it. However, that is the one commercial example I have heard that has it. Apparently they do it on purpose.

 

[maltMonkey]

Hmmm...I've had that and the only off flavor I noticed was a bit of skunkiness from the green, slow-selling bottles....I'll have to pick up it up again and resample. I do love beer research

Thanks!

 

[Evan!]

Hmmm...I've had that and the only off flavor I noticed was a bit of skunkiness from the green, slow-selling bottles....I'll have to pick up it up again and resample. I do love beer research

Thanks!

Same here. I've never gotten diacetyl from PU. Just the skunkiness. Not as bad as rolling rock, but still pretty damn skunky.

 

[Soulive]

I have detected diacetyl in Anchor Steam. It was only one bottle though, which I found pretty weird. I rarely ever detect it in commercial beers...

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

PU (no pun) has repackaged lately. They've wrapped the necks of the bottle in foil and renewed the carrier to wrp over the "shoulders" of the bottle. Good practice for green bottles but, a PITA to get them out.

OP: You want diacetyl? Take a beer (any beer) and put a drop of Butter Flavored Extract in your glass and then pour the beer over that to mix.

IIRC, the Butter Flavored extract is actually Diacetyl (aka artificial flavoring).

 

[9/9]

I don't have much experience identifying diacetyl, or a number of other off-flavors.

I think it would be a _great_ idea if someone ran a seminar/get-together where they had a bunch of brews that had mistakes, so you could experience the various flavors produced ("this is what is tastes like when the fermentation temp is way too high", "this is what is tastes like when the beer is oxgyenated when bottling", etc.).

 

[cubbies]

Same here. I've never gotten diacetyl from PU. Just the skunkiness. Not as bad as rolling rock, but still pretty damn skunky.

I had to do some googling just to make sure I was not making something up. According to a brewingtechniques.com article

Pilsner Urquell's flavor profile includes some diacetyl notes, detectable to some beer drinkers as a buttery flavor. The brewery claims the maximum allowable level is 0.12 ppm, a bit on the high side, but probably due to the beer's incomplete fermentation. Few, however, seem to find the flavor objectionable (9). Some would even say that it enhances the beer by giving it added complexity.

 

[ClutchDude]

Yep. Diacetyl is a butter flavoring used in a couple of things. It actually causes a lung disease in popcorn factory workers when it used to make that fake butter taste appear.

It takes uber high concentrations (like 2-4 bags of popcorn a day for many many many days) to cause it though, so no worries with your butter beer.

 

[HP_Lovecraft]

Didn't they stop using the Diacetyl in popcorn because of that reason?

Most of the breweries in Maine use Ringwood yeast, which is a massive diacetyl producer. Ie Shipyard, Gearys, Sea Dog, Smuttynose, etc.

Apparently, the only way to diminish the diacetyl is to open-ferment, and carefully temp control. I don't notice it in Shipyard, but it is apparent in the Gearys Pale ales.

 

[olllllo]

Beers that use Ringwood yeast are known for their diacetyl.

I think maybe Arcadia or Shipyard might be a good goole starting point.

 

[olllllo]

Wow. Too slow for HP today. Kudos.

 

[maltMonkey]

I've used Wyeast's Ringwood Ale in 3 different batches, and have tried several of Arcadia and Shipyard's beers and haven't noticed that flavor.....

People seem to talk about diacetyl like it's a real problem, but I'm starting to thing that it's being blown WAY out of proportion or I have an underdeveloped palette.....

 

[olllllo]

Maybe you're drinking them too cold.

 

[maltMonkey]

Maybe you're drinking them too cold.

It could be.....that's why I'd like to find a commercial beer that's well-known for diacetyl to see if I can even detect it.

 

[Beerthoven]

Here is a guideline for doctoring beer to achieve certain off-flavors, like diacetyl.

http://www.bjcp.org/study.html#drbeer

Pete's Wicked Ale and Sam Smith's Nut Brown Ale are known to have moderate levels of diacetyl (according to these people)

 

[maltMonkey]

So far we've got Sam Smith's Nut Brown, Pete's Wicked, and Pilsner Urquell. I've had them all but I'm going to pick them up again when I get my mixed six for the weekend. Anyone know of 3 other beers known for diacetyl (so I can fill out my six pack )

 

[Funkenjaeger]

A ton of Maine beers are full of it, as they all use ringwood - shipyard was already mentioned, and gritty's belongs on that list as well, and geary's... In particular, Shipyard's 'Old Thumper' is a butterbomb - it should leave NO doubt in your mind about what diacetyl is like, as it practically slaps you in the face.

Of course, the likelihood of you finding many (or any) of these Maine beers in Kansas is probably pretty slim, but I figured I'd mention it just in case.

 

[Arneba28]

what types of beer aim for diacetyl. all olde ales, scotch ales...I have tasted it in Scotch Silly(cant remember who makes it) but wasnt sure if that is uniform in all scotch ale.

 

[Rhoobarb]

I describe it as a butterscotch flavor. Drink a beer while sucking on a butterscotch candy and you'll get a pretty good idea of diacetyl.

Also, any bar that is lax in cleaning it's lines or serves more bottled beer than draft will end up serving beer loaded with diacetyl from it's tap system! I found myself stuck in such a dive bar a few years back, thanks to a buddy's "Let's live on the edge for awhile!" lament. Every beer they served me in this place from their tap was loaded with diacetyl. After sending back a third beer and complaining it tasted bad, the bartendress told me, "I wouldn't drink anything from these taps. Most folks 'round here order bottles." (Thanks for telling me now, you white trash biker's whore-skank.) I ordered a Sammy, drank it, then twisted my buddy's arm to get the hell out of this hellhole.

 

[jds]

Old Peculier?

I remember having one a while back and thinking it had a lot of butterscotch-y notes to it.

 

[john from dc]

i think i remember reading somewhere that you can reduce the amount of diacetyl when using the ringwood yeast by performing a "diacetyl rest."

i'd only heard of diacetyl rests when people were talking about lagers, but ringwood is an ale yeast.

from the searching i've done on the web, most people have said that if you let the beer sit in the primary for a week after its done fermenting, the yeast will metabolize most of the diacetyl and you'll end up with a clean tasting beer.

can't say i've ever detected diacetyl in commercial brews but i'll certainly be looking for it when i taste my ringwood heather ale's hydrometer sample.

 

[maltMonkey]

A ton of Maine beers are full of it, as they all use ringwood - shipyard was already mentioned, and gritty's belongs on that list as well, and geary's... In particular, Shipyard's 'Old Thumper' is a butterbomb - it should leave NO doubt in your mind about what diacetyl is like, as it practically slaps you in the face.

Of course, the likelihood of you finding many (or any) of these Maine beers in Kansas is probably pretty slim, but I figured I'd mention it just in case.

Thanks for the tip--'ll look for "Old Thumper". You're right about the Maine beers in KS, but I make a couple trips to KC, Missouri every year and I can at least get Shipyard there.

 

[maltMonkey]

Old Peculier?

I remember having one a while back and thinking it had a lot of butterscotch-y notes to it.

Haven't heard of that one. Is it this?

 

[Moonpile]

Haven't heard of that one. Is it this?

They likely meant this Theakston's Old Peculiar

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/359/926

 

[Bearcat Brewmeister]

what types of beer aim for diacetyl. all olde ales, scotch ales...I have tasted it in Scotch Silly(cant remember who makes it) but wasnt sure if that is uniform in all scotch ale.

Scotch and Scottish ales are not supposed to have diacetyl, but the flavor they get from carmelizing the first runnings or continuous carmelization is often mistaken for diacetyl.

 

[jds]

They likely meant this Theakston's Old Peculiar

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/359/926

That's the one. Note the spelling, Peculier. It's spelled in a peculiar way.

I've had it a number of times at Old chicago pizza joints, although it's been a while.

 

[zoebisch01]

I have read that Sam Smith's Pale Ale has it by design (really it is from the slate fermentation tanks they have and the yeast strain they use).

 

[iamjonsharp]

I have read that Sam Smith's Pale Ale has it by design (really it is from the slate fermentation tanks they have and the yeast strain they use).

This is what I've heard. To the OP: I'd try a bottle of this.

Jon

 

[maltMonkey]

The funny thing is Samuel Smith's Pale is my favorite beer--I drink it all the time. If that's diacetyl then maybe I want it in my beers.....

 

[Ryan_PA]

I believe Trader Joe's distributes Sea Dog ales.

 

[Trencher]

Had a Pilsner imported from India at one of the local ethnic restaurants a little while back that was loaded with buttery flavor. I believe the name was Haywood 5000. It went really well with the heavy curry flavors.

 

[Teddi Brewski]

It was a while ago, but I recall getting a huge diacetyl pop from a beer name of "Xingu."
It's from Brazil I beleive...Michael Jackson has written on it before. Also recall diacetyl being pretty prominent in Dragon Stout, a Jamaican stout. Good Luck

 

[olllllo]

I am tasting diacetyl just by reading about diacetyl....

 

[maltMonkey]

It was a while ago, but I recall getting a huge diacetyl pop from a beer name of "Xingu."
It's from Brazil I beleive...Michael Jackson has written on it before. Also recall diacetyl being pretty prominent in Dragon Stout, a Jamaican stout. Good Luck

I've had that one several times too....good beer.

 

[ChrisS68]

had to give this a bump
I think it's diacetyl, or I got a plain bad batch. I can't say I've ever knowingly experienced diacetyl. Picked up a six-pack of Stite Golden Pilsner today. Supposed to be a "fine German style pils brewed with a patented process". Man, the buttery flavor hits you so hard, it almost tastes spoiled.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Supposedly Pilsner Urquell. I havent had it in a long time, but I dont remember tasting it. However, that is the one commercial example I have heard that has it. Apparently they do it on purpose.

Never tasted it in any PU.

 

[Brewsmith]

I had a scotish ale a brewpub that was very buttery. That was the first beer where I tasted it and knew immediately there was diacetyl in there.

 

[cubbies]

Never tasted it in any PU.

See post #8.

It is reported that it has it, however, it is not detectable to me.