Cold crash before kegging neipa?

[MotoGP1000]

brew-bros,

Wondering if I cold crash my neipa before kegging? I’ve had experience with neipa not cold crash tasting waaaay too hop burny And cold crashing has helped that out.
My thought was to cold crash then close transfer to my corny. Thoughts?

One last question— when kegging snd close transfering... do you keep the purge valve open on the kegging during the close transfer process?

Thanks in advance

 

[ong]

I just transfer to the keg and purge. It’s going to cold crash in there anyway, and this way it won’t suck in a bunch of O2.

 

[MotoGP1000]

I just transfer to the keg and purge. It’s going to cold crash in there anyway, and this way it won’t suck in a bunch of O2.

No issues with hop burn? I made one without a cold crash and it’s was so astringent it was almost undrinkable

 

[WBB]

If you have the room, I would cold crash.

 

[MotoGP1000]

If you have the room, I would cold crash.

Def have the room. Thoughts on the purge valve? Leave open when racking over?

 

[day_trippr]

imo, if one doesn't have a way to prevent O2 uptake during a cold-crash, it's better to do a closed transfer to a purged keg first, then cold-crash (while carbonating) and take the hit on the first couple of pours. This is particularly true (again, imo) with neipas that are just waiting for a stray oxygen molecule to turn brown.

The LoDO folks would say "even better, rack with a handful of fermentation points left and use a spunding valve on the keg to "naturally carbonate" the keg, then cold crash"...

[edit] When loading a purged keg I snap on a gas QD and run the line to a small bucket of water. OC stuff

Cheers!

 

[ong]

No issues with hop burn? I made one without a cold crash and it’s was so astringent it was almost undrinkable

Sure, but it drops out in a few days in the keg and a half pint pour or two, in my experience.

 

[BeerFst]

One last question— when kegging snd close transfering... do you keep the purge valve open on the kegging during the close transfer process?

Thanks in advance

I crashed my most recent one without any ill effects though I do think the first pours from the fermentation keg were quite a bit nicer than tha pours from the serving keg even tho I did a full Star San purge ahead of time.

In order to closed transfer you need some where for the volume to go. One way is to pressurize the serving keg to the same pressure as the fermenting keg(if you spunded), hook up liquid to liquid outs and gas to gas outs. You’ll need a fairly long length of tube as then you’ll put the fermenting keg completely above the serving keg and allow for gravity to transfer the beer to the serving keg. Having the gas posts jumpered allows for the beer to displace the trapped volume in the serving keg while the trapped volume in the serving keg ends up in the fermentation keg. This is important if you are transferring already carbed Beer as to minimize the foaming.

However if you don’t have the ability to do this cause you do t have enough connects (like me), you’ll need to provide a way for the gas to get out, aka open the poppet like you suggested. Otherwise some beer will transfer but stop when he pressure is equalized between the two kegs. I actually put my spund on the serving keg and set it to only a few psi below my transferring pressure. I carb at the end of ferm with a spund so I need the back pressure to prevent foaming

 

[bigdawg86]

I crashed my most recent one, Primarily to get the hops out of suspension. Although I don't have a fancy Co2 suckback device I just made it a habit to purge the headspace twice a day for the 48 hours I crashed. Then I did a pseudo pressure transfer (Sovereign Fermentor doesn't hold onto more than 1-2 PSI) to a keg using a purged bouncer mac daddy filter with fine mesh screen to get the last hop matter out of the transfer. Great results without any oxidation. This was my 4th of July brew, so keg was kicked in less than a week though

 

[MotoGP1000]

I crashed my most recent one, Primarily to get the hops out of suspension. Although I don't have a fancy Co2 suckback device I just made it a habit to purge the headspace twice a day for the 48 hours I crashed. Then I did a pseudo pressure transfer (Sovereign Fermentor doesn't hold onto more than 1-2 PSI) to a keg using a purged bouncer mac daddy filter with fine mesh screen to get the last hop matter out of the transfer. Great results without any oxidation. This was my 4th of July brew, so keg was kicked in less than a week though

I’m reading of various methods to prevent cold crash suck back. One that seems pretty straight forward and easy, and void of any real error is placing clear sanitized Saran Wrap over the opening with a rubber band. Might try this

 

[day_trippr]

Pretty much zero chance that actually works...

 

[MotoGP1000]

Pretty much zero chance that actually works...

Wouldn’t see why not. At least not any less than other devices. We’ll find out though on this batch. Last time used a 3 piece stopper and it was fine. Figured I’d try the Saran Wrap. Either way O2 intake has too be pretty minimal

 

[ong]

Wouldn’t see why not. At least not any less than other devices. We’ll find out though on this batch. Last time used a 3 piece stopper and it was fine. Figured I’d try the Saran Wrap. Either way O2 intake has too be pretty minimal

I mean, if the gas in the fermenter contracts, either the fermented has to hold a partial vacuum, or additional gas enters until pressure is balanced. If your fermenter can’t hold vacuum, you either need to replace with CO2 or you get oxygen ingress. Or am I missing something?

 

[Biscuits]

Obviously there are different schools of though on cold crashing, but in my experience it is definitely something that improves the finished product and enjoyment of it. Cold crashing allows any hops/yeast still in suspension to settle out which not only allows you to drink it fresher but it also aids in reducing diptube and poppet clogs if you keg.

 

[MotoGP1000]

I mean, if the gas in the fermenter contracts, either the fermented has to hold a partial vacuum, or additional gas enters until pressure is balanced. If your fermenter can’t hold vacuum, you either need to replace with CO2 or you get oxygen ingress. Or am I missing something?

Right. Not saying you’re wrong but from reading various threads and some experience with crashing it seems that level of intake is minimal and the methods proposed don’t really yield marked difference. From what I read, any suck back will have the Saran Wrap move slightly into the carboy kind of how suck back on a 3 piece might take in a little sanitized water. This is kind of an experiment on my end. Will be finding out how it works out

 

[day_trippr]

So, let's assume the plastic wrap forms a perfect seal and has a very low O2 permeability*.
What happens when you remove the plastic to rack out of the crashed fermentor?

When I started cold-crashing under very light CO2 top-pressure the difference in shelf life for my neipas was dramatic...

* Saran Wrap used to be made from polyvinylidene chloride, which has an ultra-low O2 permeability (0.6 cm3 μm m−2 d−1 kPa−1). Due to a whole host of issues Dow switched to using low density polyethylene, one of the most O2 permeable plastics (2000 cm3 μm m−2 d−1 kPa−1). This might not be uncommon in that product space...

Cheers!

 

[Upthewazzu]

I'm a fan of cold crashing my NEIPA's, at a minimum to 45°.

 

[MotoGP1000]

So, let's assume the plastic wrap forms a perfect seal and has a very low O2 permeability*.
What happens when you remove the plastic to rack out of the crashed fermentor?

When I started cold-crashing under very light CO2 top-pressure the difference in shelf life for my neipas was dramatic...

* Saran Wrap used to be made from polyvinylidene chloride, which has an ultra-low O2 permeability (0.6 cm3 μm m−2 d−1 kPa−1). Due to a whole host of issues Dow switched to using low density polyethylene, one of the most O2 permeable plastics (2000 cm3 μm m−2 d−1 kPa−1). This might not be uncommon in that product space...

Cheers!

Isn’t assume the same thing when a 3 piece is removed. You get a little O2 in there but the Co2 layer should still be present. I have no experience using co2 too presurre although I’d be curious. My current processes have yielded neipas that haven’t gone bad before I’ve finished them. I would be interested in a test/control. Perhaps brulosophy has done somthing similar

 

[gencinjay]

When I started cold-crashing under very light CO2 top-pressure the difference in shelf life for my neipas was dramatic...

Just to make sure I understand what you're saying, you have a vessel that can hold pressure and get a longer shelf life when doing a cold crash under pressure?

 

[day_trippr]

Yes on both counts.

I have a fixed 11" WC (~ 0.4 psi) regulator switched in when I cold crash. The pressure is so low I had to remove the check valves from the front two manifold port shutoffs as they needed more than that to open reliably.

But I still use the "pneumatic fuses" just on GPs...

The "shelf life" difference was so dramatic with neipas I would literally say don't cold crash without some method of preventing O2 from being picked up in the offing...

Cheers!

 

[Jag75]

What's the purpose of cold crashing a NEIPA . they're supposed to be hazy . You must be dry hopping without a bag or hops tumbler and are trying to drop that .

 

[day_trippr]

Because we don't want to pull 6 ounces of dry hops into a keg?

Cheers!

 

[Jag75]

Because we don't want to pull 6 ounces of dry hops into a keg?

Cheers!

Using a large paint strainer bag eliminates that . When you keg it the bag stays back in the fermenter . No hop mess in keg or extra floaties in the beer

 

[day_trippr]

Meh. Hard pass...

Cheers!

 

[Bobby_M]

Using a large paint strainer bag eliminates that . When you keg it the bag stays back in the fermenter . No hop mess in keg or extra floaties in the beer

No good. Noticeable lack of utilization and at 30 bucks a pound for Galaxy....

 

[Jag75]

No good. Noticeable lack of utilization and at 30 bucks a pound for Galaxy....

I didn't use galaxy but I didnt have a lack of aroma or taste . That Galaxy must be high dollar !

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

So, let's assume the plastic wrap forms a perfect seal and has a very low O2 permeability*.
What happens when you remove the plastic to rack out of the crashed fermentor?

When I started cold-crashing under very light CO2 top-pressure the difference in shelf life for my neipas was dramatic...

* Saran Wrap used to be made from polyvinylidene chloride, which has an ultra-low O2 permeability (0.6 cm3 μm m−2 d−1 kPa−1). Due to a whole host of issues Dow switched to using low density polyethylene, one of the most O2 permeable plastics (2000 cm3 μm m−2 d−1 kPa−1). This might not be uncommon in that product space...

Cheers!

I'm curious what you're looking for as far as shelf life goes? I've cold crashed many NEIPAs with no O2 mitigation system and had kegs that still drink great 4-6 weeks after kegging. I can't speak to longer shelf life because they've never lasted longer than that.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Because we don't want to pull 6 ounces of dry hops into a keg?

Cheers!

I have a bigmouth bubbler with a drain port. I've experimented with and without cold crash, but using the same keg transfer system. I drain into a purged keg with the gas out on the keg going back to the top of the fermenter. I drain about 1 cup or so (until the beer pours "clear") into a bucket, then connect to the keg. Even with dry hop additions of 6-8 ozs, I don't get a bunch of hop matter in the keg other than what's suspended in the beer.

When doing it this way, there's obvious hop burn for about the first 5 days, but it's usually just hitting it's stride carb wise at that point anyway.

I recently picked up a top draw system for my keg and plan to try that on my next NEIPA to see if it speeds up the process. The main reason I bought it, though, was so I could move my keg to a bottling location without having huge issues with stirred up stuff near the pickup tube (an issue whether I cold crash or not).