Cloudy IPA

[mdweil]

I've been asking a lot of questions on this forum lately and I'd like to say thanks for all the help. Here is another set of questions...

I brewed a Chinook IPA kit on Oct 20. The OG was 1.052 and the temp was 72F. On Oct 29 I transferred it to a secondary, glass carboy, and dry hopped 1oz of Chinook Hops. The SG was 1.018 and the temp was 68F. I used Wyeast 1217 West Coast IPA yeast.

I just checked on it today and it is very cloudy. Will this become any clearer or will it stay cloudy? (I know using Irish Moss would have helped - thought I had some but it was empty) The airlock still bubbles in the carboy from time to time and it is also darker than I expected.

How can I fix the cloudiness? Or can I even fix it now? I planned on leaving it in the carboy for two weeks and I'm half way there now. Maybe three weeks there?

Should I move it to a cooler location like my garage rather than the basement? Since it's getting cooler outside, I thought that may help - low 60s/upper 50s in the day and low 40s/upper 30s at night.

Thanks!

 

[duboman]

You are only at 67% attenuation and the yeast rates at 73-80% so it does not appear to be done fermenting yet, did you make a starter? How well did you aerate the wort?

Keep the beer at it's current temp and rouse it gently to try and get the beer to finish. Once the beer has reached FG give it a week to drop bright, if it's still cloudy then cold crash it for a few days at 35 degrees or so and that should help.

 

[Token]

My IPA's spend a month in the primary fermenter. I don't secondary. You are rushing yours a bit.

You've already dry hopped, so you don't want to leave that for much more than a week.

It's dark because that is a lot of beer in one vessel. It won't be that dark in a glass.

Don't put it in those garage temps unless you want to cold crash it. You will put your yeast to sleep. That is not their temperature range.

 

[mdweil]

I did not make a starter and I aerated it as well as I could given my limited supplies. I'll try to rouse it and see what happens.

Thanks a lot!

 

[mdweil]

You've already dry hopped, so you don't want to leave that for much more than a week.

What will happen if I leave it for more than a week with the dry hops? I assume it will impact the flavor, but how?

Thanks!

 

[CA_Mouse]

What will happen if I leave it for more than a week with the dry hops? I assume it will impact the flavor, but how?

Thanks!

You can get more of a vegetal taste leaching from the hops. I've never let my dry hopped beers go longer than 10 days so I don't get the grassy taste.

You, also, didn't say if this was All Grain, Partial Mash, BIAB or Extract. If you used extract (Partial Mash or an Extract batch), your FG will not be as low as an All Grain or BIAB batch.

 

[duboman]

My IPA's spend a month in the primary fermenter. I don't secondary. You are rushing yours a bit. You've already dry hopped, so you don't want to leave that for much more than a week. It's dark because that is a lot of beer in one vessel. It won't be that dark in a glass. Don't put it in those garage temps unless you want to cold crash it. You will put your yeast to sleep. That is not their temperature range.

He's not rushing it at all but due to under pitch and poor fermentation it's not finishing and needs to

My ipa's hit FG in 7-10 days and begin clearing, get dry hopped for 5-7 more days and then packaged. They win awards and are delicious.

A properly fermented beer does not need to spend a month in primary to be a good beer. Do you really think commercial breweries tie up vessels for a whole month before they turn around a beer?

 

[Token]

He's not rushing it at all but due to under pitch and poor fermentation it's not finishing and needs to
He moved it to secondary at 1.018.

My ipa's hit FG in 7-10 days and begin clearing, get dry hopped for 5-7 more days and then packaged. They win awards and are delicious.
I make some pretty danged good beers too, especially IPA's.

A properly fermented beer does not need to spend a month in primary to be a good beer. Do you really think commercial breweries tie up vessels for a whole month before they turn around a beer?
Their process is significantly different than ours.

Ok.

 

[duboman]

Ok.

Perfectly......cheers

 

[mdweil]

You, also, didn't say if this was All Grain, Partial Mash, BIAB or Extract. If you used extract (Partial Mash or an Extract batch), your FG will not be as low as an All Grain or BIAB batch.

It was an extract kit from Northern Brewer. I've never used that kit or that yeast before. I hope the FG is lower that is is right now. The directions they included said to leave it for 1-2 weeks with the hops. I'll shoot somewhere in the middle.

Thanks!

 

[sweetcell]

don't rack to secondary until you've reached your final, terminal gravity. 1.018 was too high, you should have waited. now that the beer is in secondary, there is less yeast around to finish the job.

dry-hopping can make a beer cloudy. you're adding a lot of oils and tannins to the beer. mind you, a one ounce dry-hop is pretty small so i wouldn't expect it to add too much.

once you add the dry hops, you start a clock. i wouldn't leave them on there longer than 10 days, personally i never go over 5. so best to hit your FG, and be sure that fermentation is complete, before dry-hopping.

lots of folks, myself include, skip the secondary. i do everything in primary, including the dry-hopping. there's a big debate on secondary vs. primary-only, with primary-only being the newer and more popular (i believe, hard to know for sure).

 

[mdweil]

What is the ideal FG on an IPA?

I've been told to use a secondary to get it off the yeast to produce a "cleaner" beer. To be honest the secondary is nothing I've ever seen on a brewery tour so I was curious when I began to brew at home. What do you recommend as the ideal vessel for fermentation? I've been told a 6.5 gallon glass carboy for a 5 gallon batch. Also, if you dont have access to a fridge, what is the best way to control fermentation fermentation temps? I've been told that I ferment at too high of a temp, which has been 68-70F.

 

[sweetcell]

there is no one ideal FG for an IPA, it depends what your OG is and how you prefer your IPAs. check out the BJCP guidelines here: http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style14.php west coast IPA are typically very dry, so id that's what you're going for you'll want a FG at the lower end of that range. some people like more malt and sweetness in their IPAs, so they'd aim for higher.

the idea that a secondary leads to a "cleaner" beer, whatever that means, is debatable. for every person who claims it makes a difference, there is someone who says it doesn't. Basic Brewing Radio did a group experiment on the impact of using a secondary vs. not, and the consensus was that it didn't change much in the finished product. it's a good listen.

doing 5 gal batches in a 6.5 gal carboy is perfect.

control temps via a swamp cooler: have the carboy sit in a tub of water, and use ice (frozen plastic bottles of water, ice packs, whatever) to keep the fermenter cool. be sure to have a temp-strip ("fermometer" on the carboy, above the water level, to get an idea of the temp of the beer.

68-70 might be too high - it depends on what yeast you use and what you want to achieve. you're within range for the Wyeast 1217. for any yeast, you'll get a cleaner fermentation at the low of of a yeast's range, and it will be fruitier/more expressive/more yeast flavors at the higher end.

 

[IL1kebeer]

What is the ideal FG on an IPA?

IMO 1.011 or lower. I prefer them dry and with a light body sitting around 1.09. This really lets the hops shine and it ensures that the beer is very drinkable. You want to be able to take a sip right after you finish your last sip. Once you get at 1.014 or higher the drinkability suffers and the beer gets too heavy. Also, with a higher FG is the beer is usually sweeter (not always) and more malty which interferes with the hops, and let's face it, the hops are what the style is all about. If you want a higher FG hoppy beer with a malty bite then brew a Pale Ale or as an extreme you can make an American Barleywine.

That being said, there are many commercial examples that finish higher than 1.011. But I really think the American IPA is better suited for a sub 1.010 FG.

 

[NewkyBrown]

don't rack to secondary until you've reached your final, terminal gravity. 1.018 was too high, you should have waited. now that the beer is in secondary, there is less yeast around to finish the job.

dry-hopping can make a beer cloudy. you're adding a lot of oils and tannins to the beer. mind you, a one ounce dry-hop is pretty small so i wouldn't expect it to add too much.

once you add the dry hops, you start a clock. i wouldn't leave them on there longer than 10 days, personally i never go over 5. so best to hit your FG, and be sure that fermentation is complete, before dry-hopping.

lots of folks, myself include, skip the secondary. i do everything in primary, including the dry-hopping. there's a big debate on secondary vs. primary-only, with primary-only being the newer and more popular (i believe, hard to know for sure).

I'm interested in dry hopping in the primary as I don't have a 5 gallon carboy so I would have a lot of head space if I used my 6.5 as a secondary.

Do you still get the same level of aroma with a primary dry hop?

 

[sweetcell]

I'm interested in dry hopping in the primary as I don't have a 5 gallon carboy so I would have a lot of head space if I used my 6.5 as a secondary.

Do you still get the same level of aroma with a primary dry hop?

i haven't noticed any difference. TONS of aroma from my dry hop in primary.

 

[rtbrews]

I agree with sweetcell. Try it once and if you don't like it, you can adjust by adding more though I doubt you notice a difference in the hope aroma. I used to be a big time pro-secondary guy until I tried primary only and realized I was wasting my time.

It seems this thread got turned into an ipa primary vs secondary argument so I am just going to sum up some possible plans for mdweil:

1. Your possibly incomplete fermentation is the #1 issue here. Without going to any extremes, the best thing you can do is rouse it up as previously stated and hope between that and thr rousing of racking it, you have enough healthy yeast to finish the job. If you used no simple sugar and all extract though, you might just be stuck at 1.018.

I just checked on it today and it is very cloudy. Will this become any clearer or will it stay cloudy?
How can I fix the cloudiness? Or can I even fix it now? I planned on leaving it in the carboy for two weeks and I'm half way there now. Maybe three weeks there?

It will clear over time but probably not a lot if you leave it at a high temp and have dry hops in there. You have a few options:

1) after rousing and letting it sit a few more days, you can move it into a cold room if possible and this will help but depending on the amount of dry hops, may not be sufficient.
2) If you really care about the clarity that much, get some gelatin or similar product, add before crashing cold and let it sit for 3-5 days. Given the low temps while crashing, you don't really need to consider that 3-5 days as part of your 10-14 dry hop limit or 3) just accept a cloudy IPA and leave it another week to hopefully ferment to completion and then keg or bottle, it is not that big of a deal for the style especially for a beginner

 

[NewkyBrown]

Yeah I hijacked the thread a little! Thanks fr the input. Ill try the primary dry hop in a couple of weeks.

 

[mdweil]

Would this help to clarify the beer?

cold crash it and then use gelatin finings - bottle two days after adding the finings

 

[rtbrews]

Yes, that would work. You can also add the finings and then move it to the cold room. This is the method that I always use. I am not going to list my awards in IPAs to validate my opinion here but my reasoning for this is as follows:

When adding the gelatin/water mixture, you are inevitably going to introduce a little oxygen which is not at all what we want in an IPA so by adding the warm mixture into the carboy while there is still a good amount of yeast in there before cold crashing, the yeast have a chance to eat away that oxygen as the carboy begins to chill. On the other hand, gelatin is more effective at low temps so it is possible this could an a superior method. I would just be concerned I would add extra oxygen.

 

[tagz]

Would this help to clarify the beer?

cold crash it and then use gelatin finings - bottle two days after adding the finings

Yep! Just make sure you have hit FG. In the future, if you are getting a good cold/hot break, you should be fine with Irish moss and cold crash.

 

[sweetcell]

Yes, that would work. You can also add the finings and then move it to the cold room. This is the method that I always use. I am not going to list my awards in IPAs to validate my opinion here but my reasoning for this is as follows:

When adding the gelatin/water mixture, you are inevitably going to introduce a little oxygen which is not at all what we want in an IPA so by adding the warm mixture into the carboy while there is still a good amount of yeast in there before cold crashing, the yeast have a chance to eat away that oxygen as the carboy begins to chill. On the other hand, gelatin is more effective at low temps so it is possible this could an a superior method. I would just be concerned I would add extra oxygen.

i believe the amount of O2 introduced is very small, especially if you use previously boiled water to rehydrate the gelatin. the yeast aren't going to use O2 at that point because they only need it when active (mostly during reproduction). by the time you're adding finings, there is no food left for the yeast and they aren't looking to reproduce. they're going dormant. they have no use for the O2.

when you add priming sugar, then the yeast reactivate and can scrub out some O2 - because they have a new source of energy. but they can't digest gelatin.

 

[rtbrews]

Yes, that is a good point and the amount of oxygen is definitely very small. I definitely do not think it is something to worry about, just wanted to explain why that was what I suggested as an option. It is more of a personal process preference.