CLOSED TRANSFER QUESTION

[HoundboundCo]

Here’s a question to something I have not been able to find an answer too. Two questions actually.

Questions:

1: I did not have any success on my first attempt at a closed transfer and I’m assuming it’s because the was no vent from the gas post. I only had the liquid out line connect from fermenter to keg and upon the beer flowing from the fermenter it just came to a complete stop upon reaching the disconnect and did not enter the keg at all. Will simply running a gas line from the gas post into a bucket of Starsan fix my issue while doing the transfer?

2: my issue is finding the right attachment for my disconnect to connect to a 1/2 tube that runs from my spike flex. I’m trying to skate around spending money on the pressure transfer package spike makes.

 

[Broken Crow]

1: Yes. ..alternatively you could pull and turn-to-lock the PRV open on the corny lid. (I'm a ssuming you're using corny kegs.) But yeah, you can dunk a hose, but if it's flowing, it'll be constanly pushing gas out so it's not mandatory. You may want to get a spunding valve, even the cheap Kegland bowtie one... they're really useful.
2: See if you can heat some 3/8" inch tubing and fit it over your 1/2" barb on the spike, and use a corny disconnect with a 3/8" barb on the other end... makes for less line loss.
..be sure you're either pumping gas or opening your fermenter to allow it to drain.

 

[Deadalus]

You can try what Broken Crow says or you could get a barbed reducer coupling to splice the two lines. There are SS and plastic barbed reducers you can buy.

https://www.amazon.com/Quickun-Reducer-Reducing-Splicer-Intersection/dp/B07WNYS5BY?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&smid=A3DDU64V0NHDQT&th=1

These two items would connect to a flared keg disconnect using 5/16" ID tubing.

Flare Fitting - 1/4 in. Swivel Nuts (Stainless Steel) | MoreBeer

Stainless steel swivel nuts for beverage flare fittings. Free shipping over $59.

www.morebeer.com

Flare Fitting | Stainless 5/15 in. Barb | 4 Pack | KOMOS® | MoreBeer

Stainless steel 5/16 in. barb for flare fitting connections. For use with 1/4 in. swivel nut. If you're connecting to stainless steel or brass, you...

www.morebeer.com

 

[tracer bullet]

Options are typically

1) Push CO2 into the fermenter, so that you don't have O2 entering it, and of course this helps make things move
2) Have a return line form the keg to the fermenter, so that as the beer goes into the keg, and the CO2 already there comes out, it goes back to the fermenter so there's not a vacuum being created (this is my method)

Fittings are always a thing no matter what you go with.

 

[jdauria]

I just open the keg's pressure relief valve to vent CO2 out while the beer is flowing in from the fermenter.

 

[tracer bullet]

I just open the keg's pressure relief valve to vent CO2 out while the beer is flowing in from the fermenter.

Sure, but the concern is you still end up with ambient air full of oxygen going into the fermenter, hitting the beer. Obviously not the end of the world but if you're doing some of the closed transfer work you may as well do the rest.

 

[jdauria]

Sure, but the concern is you still end up with ambient air full of oxygen going into the fermenter, hitting the beer. Obviously not the end of the world but if you're doing some of the closed transfer work you may as well do the rest.

My fermenter is closed during transfer as I used the closed transfer system from Brewhardware, so it's a carboy cap with racking cane and a gas ball lock connection...so only thing going into fermenter is CO2, which pushes it the beer out the racking cane/tubing to the liquid in on the keg. So 100% closed system. Pressure Transfer Kit, Carboy to Corny Keg, Premium

 

[ozpowell]

1: I did not have any success on my first attempt at a closed transfer and I’m assuming it’s because the was no vent from the gas post. I only had the liquid out line connect from fermenter to keg and upon the beer flowing from the fermenter it just came to a complete stop upon reaching the disconnect and did not enter the keg at all. Will simply running a gas line from the gas post into a bucket of Starsan fix my issue while doing the transfer?

If you aren’t filtering, your beer out poppet may be becoming clogged. I often experience this problem towards the beginning of the transfer, particularly for heavily dry hopped beers.

 

[tracer bullet]

If you aren’t filtering, your beer out poppet may be becoming clogged

Good point. At this point we have to realize we each have different methods and different ideas in mind as solutions accordingly.

@HoundboundCo - you'd need to add a picture or explanation of what you do, in case anything above didn't help.

My fermenter is closed during transfer as I used the closed transfer system from Brewhardware, so it's a carboy cap with racking cane and a gas ball lock connection...so only thing going into fermenter is CO2, which pushes it the beer out the racking cane/tubing to the liquid in on the keg. So 100% closed system. Pressure Transfer Kit, Carboy to Corny Keg, Premium

Cool, got it. Before you mentioned it I was envisioning the carboy being open of course. So, never mind.

My setup is similar to this (linked below). Not my picture, but cool to note that's like 14 years ago for someone here. But it's basically a little closed loop. Works quite well. I actually leave a tiny but if psi in my keg after I purge the water from it, and use that to sort of burp the 2 lines to the fermenter.

Carboy to keg transfer experimenting

Still playing around with ways to get stuff from the carboy into Cornies. A comment Bobby_M made in another thread about a true closed system made me want to try this. First I pumped Star-San into the keg using an auto-siphon connected to the long dip tube (OUT port). This sanitized the...

www.homebrewtalk.com

 

[ozpowell]

If you aren’t filtering, your beer out poppet may be becoming clogged. I often experience this problem towards the beginning of the transfer, particularly for heavily dry hopped beers.

FYI, I replace the beer out post with these on my first receiving keg. Risk of O2 exposure when I put the post back after the transfer on is pretty minimal - never had any oxidation issues.

5/8 Male x 19/32 Female (K-Lok to Corny Keg Adaptor)

This fitting is made so you can convert a ball lock keg to k-lock fittings. This is a popular option for customers wanting to use Ball Lock kegs as wash out kegs or alternatively use ball lock kegs for cocktails etc.Please note that these units are sold individually.

www.kegland.com.au

duotight - 8mm (5/16”) Female x 5/8” Female Thread (suits Keg Couplers and Tap Shanks)

Looking for high quaility push in fittings that will seal tight? duotight are the push in fitting with superior sealing capacity due to the double o-ring sealing design. Why do we use Double O-rings?The secret to our superior sealing performance is not just the fact that we use high quality...

www.kegland.com.au

 

[youngdh]

Sure, but the concern is you still end up with ambient air full of oxygen going into the fermenter, hitting the beer. Obviously not the end of the world but if you're doing some of the closed transfer work you may as well do the rest.

Since there’s a CO2 blanket from fermentation already in the fermenter the exposure to air (which is still 79% N2) is negligible IMO. This is how I have done my transfers for years (bleeding off pressure through PRV). I’ve had NEIPAs that are just as juicy and still a pale straw color six months after kegging .

 

[tracer bullet]

there’s a CO2 blanket from fermentation already in the fermenter

Oh boy, not this again. It simply doesn't work that way in the slightest. Incoming air and CO2 aren't stratified like say water and oil. They mix and they do so immediately.

 

[DarrellQ]

Since there’s a CO2 blanket from fermentation already in the fermenter the exposure to air (which is still 79% N2) is negligible IMO. This is how I have done my transfers for years (bleeding off pressure through PRV). I’ve had NEIPAs that are just as juicy and still a pale straw color six months after kegging .

This is how I've been doing it also, but I guess just venting the gas port of the keg into a bucket of Starsan while transferring, would be another option, correct?

 

[youngdh]

Oh boy, not this again. It simply doesn't work that way in the slightest. Incoming air and CO2 aren't stratified like say water and oil. They mix and they do so immediately.

Yes, this again. My empirical evidence having done transfers this way for years with IPAs and NEIPAs where after 6+ months after kegging I’ve had zero changes to the characteristics of the beer that would be attributed to O2 exposure suggest the risk is very low. Additionally, if you approach this from the partial pressures of the gases involved, mixing a larger volume of CO2 already in the fermenter with a smaller volume of air which is 79% N2, the amount of O2 exposure IMO is very very low.

 

[youngdh]

This is how I've been doing it also, but I guess just venting the gas port of the keg into a bucket of Starsan while transferring, would be another option, correct?

You could do that but I don’t feel it’s necessary as long as you close the PRV as soon as pressure equalizes. The PRV valve is a small orfice. Unless there is positive air pressure outside the keg a minuscule amount of ambient air will enter that orfice, if any, if you release the valve as soon as pressures equalize.

 

[Dland]

I put a line from CO2 tank to blow off tube at top of fermentor, does not require a special fitting, as only a few PSI from tank is needed to transfer, especially if keg is set below fermentor. Kegs are already purged with fermentation gas at this point.

Output line off gas post of keg either goes to another keg to purge, or into tub of starsan that is there already for blow off tube. That's not really necessary, as scale is used to determine when keg is full, but I like to use the bubbling sound to help monitor progress if I'm doing something else.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

2: my issue is finding the right attachment for my disconnect to connect to a 1/2 tube that runs from my spike flex. I’m trying to skate around spending money on the pressure transfer package spike makes.

Larger barbs can be found. I picked up a 3/8" one off Amazon a while back. As I recall it was like $8 (small items with "free" shipping tend to be expensive on Amazon). I believe that brewhardware.com sells 3/8" and 1/2" barbs. I got a pair of 3/8" barbs from them a while back. Shipping is not "free" but reasonable, though it might be a lot for just one or two barbs.

Here is the 1/2" one for $4.25 (plus shipping...might as well order $299 worth of stuff to get the free shipping!!)

Swivel Flare Adapter - 1/4'' FFL x 1/2'' OD hose barb

Brewhardware.com has built a solid reputation for offering the best retrofit sight glass kits available to the homebrew market with a consistent high level of customer support both pre and post sale. We feel a great sense of pride reading through all the positive reviews of our products and...

www.brewhardware.com

 

[Bobby_M]

Here’s a question to something I have not been able to find an answer too. Two questions actually.

Questions:

1: I did not have any success on my first attempt at a closed transfer and I’m assuming it’s because the was no vent from the gas post. I only had the liquid out line connect from fermenter to keg and upon the beer flowing from the fermenter it just came to a complete stop upon reaching the disconnect and did not enter the keg at all. Will simply running a gas line from the gas post into a bucket of Starsan fix my issue while doing the transfer?

2: my issue is finding the right attachment for my disconnect to connect to a 1/2 tube that runs from my spike flex. I’m trying to skate around spending money on the pressure transfer package spike makes.

Were you trying to get the transfer to work via gravity? If so, was the fermenter notably positioned higher than the keg?

Did you have any CO2 pressure going into the fermenter top?

Was the beer already carbonated in the fermenter or still flat?

These things will affect the advice moving forward.

The tubing from the FV to the keg doesn't need to be 1/2" ID. I tend to use 3/8" or 5/16" hose. The keg's long diptube is only 5/16 anyway.

If you don't already have a way to get CO2 into the top of the fermenter I have this kit:

If you already have a way to put CO2 in, you can still build that assembly with the same 3/8" barbed parts.

 

[Jaybird]

FOXX equipment used to sell a 1/2" barb to 1/4" FFL swivel. Check them. They were a little spendy but if you wanted to go from 1/2" tubing to 1/4" gas or liquid fitting it's available.

Cheers
Jay

 

[redrocker652002]

I simply put my CO2 line into the bung of the fermenter bucket, turn the pressure on very slowly until I can see the lid rise just a bit. I then connect a line from the spigot of the bucket to the out line of the keg. Open the PRV to release any pressure and let it go. It worked great the first time. The second time the transfer seemed to stop with about an inch and a half of liquid and crud at the bottom. I tilted the bucket and got a little more. I am sure there are more efficient methods, but for now this is how I did it. Also, I filled up the keg with Starsan and ran it thru the lines of the kegerator. Once that was done, I did not let the pressure out of the keg. I hooked everything up and off it went. Again, not sure if what I did was right or not, but it seemed to work.

 

[segallis]

I put a line from CO2 tank to blow off tube at top of fermentor, does not require a special fitting, as only a few PSI from tank is needed to transfer, especially if keg is set below fermentor. Kegs are already purged with fermentation gas at this point.

Output line off gas post of keg either goes to another keg to purge, or into tub of starsan that is there already for blow off tube. That's not really necessary, as scale is used to determine when keg is full, but I like to use the bubbling sound to help monitor progress if I'm doing something else.

Great idea! I always fill two kegs and was wondering how I would know when the first keg is almost full (without wanting to wait until beer came out the gas port, which is a little overfilled for me, since I want a little bit of headspace). By having the second keg filled with startsan and letting the CO2 from the 1st keg purge the second keg, I can pause the transfer when the seconds keg stops spewing starsan, and I will have put exactly the same volume of beer into the first keg as the volume of starsan I started with in the second keg. No weighing required. And the second keg purge is free.