Clone Brews book- Celebrator Doppelbock recipe

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woopig

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Anyone tried this recipe? Thinking of trying the mini-mash method, but have been disappointed with a couple of recipes from this book so thought I'd ask first.

Thanks
 

storunner13

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Why don't you post the recipe. That way everyone can help you, not just those who have the book (I don't..). What other recipes have you tried and why haven't you liked them?
 
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woopig

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Fair enough, here it is.

OG: 1.080-1.083

Steeping grains/mini-mash (150 degrees for 90 minutes):

2.25 lbs. German 2-row Pilsner malt
12 oz. German Munich malt
8 oz. 65L German dark crystal malt
5 oz. chocolate malt

Fermentables:

6.6 lbs. Ireks light malt syrup
1 lb. M&F light DME
0.5 lb. malto-dextrin

Hops:

0.75 oz. Northern Brewer (7.3%) 60 min.
1 oz. German Hallertau Hersbrucker (3.5%) 60 min.
0.5 oz. same as above 15 min.

Yeast:
Wyeast 2308 Munich lager yeast (several packets or huge starter, i assume. doesn't specify)

Recipe doesn't mention additional yeast before bottling.

My first lager, so I know nothing.

Would appreciate any input. Thanks in advance.
 

iamatuna

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Looks good to me

pilsner malt is a must but i might want to turn down some of the DME, too much might bring the alcohol flavour forward to much but that could just be me.

all the best, happy brewing!

let us know how it turned out
 

SpanishCastleAle

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Just my opinion but I agree with remilard in one of those links, i.e. 100% 9L-10L Munich malt (like Weyermann Type II), triple decoction, and super long boil. Or you could mash 'normally' and do a first-runnings kettle caramelization boil like with wee heavies. I don't know how else you'd get those flavors without doing it in the kettle.
 

motobrewer

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Best Malz has Ayinger on their "list of breweries"

maybe try getting ahold of their dark munich. that's what i was gonna try, if i ever get the ballz!
 
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woopig

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Thanks for all the input, guys. SpanishCastleAle, you're way too advanced for me. Still stuck in the partial-mash phase. In fact, that's part of what I was wondering. I'm not sure a beer like this would come out right with a partial-mash method, and hate to tie up my chest freezer for so long if not. If no one has tried it, maybe I'll give it a go and find out. Thanks again.
 

motobrewer

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i'd give it a go. regardless, what you have looks like a solid recipe

it might not be celebrator but it'll still be good beer.

and yeah, big starter, aerate well, maintain solid ferm temps.
 

SpanishCastleAle

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i'd give it a go. regardless, what you have looks like a solid recipe

it might not be celebrator but it'll still be good beer.

and yeah, big starter, aerate well, maintain solid ferm temps.
woopig,
^^^Agree 100% with motobrewer. Brew it well and it should be a mighty fine beer.
 
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woopig

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Excellent, thanks for the input. One more question and I'll leave you guys alone. My LHBS doesn't have that particular yeast, but the guy said the White Labs "Bock yeast" he has would be just as good. Agree or disagree?
 

motobrewer

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yes, i'd use White Labs 833 - German Bock.

apparently that's the Ayinger strain.
 
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woopig

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Ok, I said I was done with questions on this but, of course, another has come up. In the section of Brewing Classic Styles on Doppelbocks, they talk about pitching six packets of liquid yeast or making a big starter.

motobrewer, you agreed with "huge starter", but i'm getting varying opinions on what this means. my LHBS guys say regular sized starter with one packet and don't worry about it. but they tend to be pretty laid back about everything, whereas i'm pretty uptight about the details. so can i hear some thoughts on this? i've never made more than a 1L starter and don't really have the equipment to do so. but i would rather wait and upgrade than watch this beer lager for six months and turn out poorly.

thanks again, guys.
 

SpanishCastleAle

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My opinion and my SOP is to make a big starter (at least 2L) but only brew a low-ish gravity beer with it. Then use the cake from that first beer for the Doppelbock. The size starter you would need for such a big lager is just not going to be practical.
 

motobrewer

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http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

unfortunately, for 5 gallons of 1.080, mrmalty says 4.5 liters of starter required, unless you have a stir plate.

if you can't brew a regular gravity beer and use the cake from that, i would just get 2-3 vials and make as big of a starter as you can. i'm sure it'll still ferment.
 

SpanishCastleAle

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moto, I think that 4.6L number is correct if you use 3 vials/smackpacks. If you only used 1 vial/smackpack you'd need a 19.4L simple starter...and that's assuming 100% viability.
 
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woopig

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wow, thanks for that link, cool stuff. if i'm going to get into lagers, it looks like a stir plate might be a good investment. i see that northern brewer now has one for $50, might have to order it up. thanks again guys, appreciate all the help.
 

mkling

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Celebrator is not a 1.080-1.083 beer. It's only 6.7%abv -- pretty much the lowest you'll see in a doppelbock. I would suspect it is closer to 1.072-74 OG and 1.020-22 FG to get you to the abv.
 

Carter1932

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I was getting ready to prepare this recipe from Clone Brews.

Did anyone here eventually brew this particular recipe, and if so how did it compare to original.

Got plans to do this batch over MLK day, think I'll called it Occupator.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit: 1/17/2012 - So I ended up brewing this recipe, with a few small changes. I'll report back in several months to let you know how it turned out.

MLK Occupator
Targets
Batch Size: 5.0 gal
Boil Size: 5.75 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
Efficiency: 70%
OG: 1.085
FG: 1.023
ABV: 8.1%
Bitterness: 24.1 IBUs (Tinseth)
Color: 16 SRM (Mosher)

Fermentables
Chocolate Malt (UK) Grain 5.0 oz Steep 73% 350-425 L
Briess LME - Pilsen Light Extract 8.8 lb Boil 80% 2 L
Muntons DME - Light Dry Extract 1.5 lb Boil 95% 4 L
Dark Munich Malt - 12L Grain 12. oz Steep 77% 12 L
Caramunich III Malt Grain 8.0 oz Steep 72% 56-60 L

Hops
Northern Brewer 8.6% 0.75 oz 60 min Pellet 17.0
Hallertau 4.3% 0.50 oz 60 min Pellet 5.7
Hallertau 4.3% 0.25 oz 15 min Pellet 1.4

Misc
Maltodextrine Boil 8 oz 60 min
Irish Moss Fining Boil 1 tsp 15 min
Yeast Nutrient Primary 1 tsp 10 min

Yeast
WLP833 - German Bock Lager Yeast Lager Liquid 2 qt

Steps:
1. Steep specialty grains @ 150˚ for 30 min.
2. Sparge grains w/ 155-160˚ H20 & bring to boil.
3. Flame out, add 1/2 to 3/4 of fermentables.
4. Bring back to boil, then add hops, remainder of fermentables, etc, per schedule.
Results: 5.5 gallons @ OG: 1.084
5. Pitch yeast & ferment @ 50˚
 

Carter1932

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Yeah, its about one month into lagering so far. I might have to take a taste today to see how its progressing.

Edit:
3/18/2012 - I checked out how the lagering was progressing. Its attenuated down from 1.084 to 1.025, 7.7% ABV, 70% AA. It has a nice chocolate color, but clear. Taste great,its got a fairly complex flavor profile. A nice roasted character; chocolate is present but not overwhelming. Its got a bit of alcohol taste to it, not too bad, hopefully that will mellow out a bit. I fermented @ 50˚ the entire time, its been lagering at about 33˚ for around 40 days so far.

I've not had a Celebrator in awhile, probably time to run down to Sergio's to compare to the commercial example.
 

Carter1932

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Umm good!!

It came out with a very complex flavor profile. A bit chocolatey, not bitter, smooth, rich, quite tasty. I mentioned hot alcohol taste when it was young, that flavor disappeared after about 4 months of lagering.

I've not had opportunity to compared to the original yet.

I probably still have about 1-2 gallons remaining; seems like its peak flavor was reached at around 9 months of lagering. Its still good, but doesn't seem quite as robust as 2 months ago.

I bottled a few of longevity; I'll be curious to taste how they hold up.

I can recommend the recipe I devised, I'll be doing it again in the next month or two. Be cautious with the chocolate malt addition, it could easily overpower the fine balance of flavor. I used the British chocolate because its bit less bitter than ordinary chocolate malt.

Next time I pour one I take a photo and post.
 
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