cleaning my bottles...

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SabresBrew

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I've got my bottles washing in the dishwasher right now and plan on bottling tomorrow. Just wondering if I should do anything special between now and tomorrow to keep my bottles clean. I'm going to sanitize right before bottling, but I'm just wondering if I should cover up the tops of the bottles with plastic wrap or something.
 

bradsul

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Sometimes it's easy to over-think things. I know a couple people who go to the trouble to put foil covers on each and every bottle. I like to be lazy where I can. :D
 

eriktlupus

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SabresBrew said:
I've got my bottles washing in the dishwasher right now and plan on bottling tomorrow. Just wondering if I should do anything special between now and tomorrow to keep my bottles clean. I'm going to sanitize right before bottling, but I'm just wondering if I should cover up the tops of the bottles with plastic wrap or something.
the dishwasher acts like an autoclave in that it will sanitize everthing inside and remain so until u open it. i usually run the washer bout 1-2 hrs before bottling, use em when they are still hottish and you'll have no problems.:rockin: :rockin:
 

Mr Nick

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Please explain how the dishwasher sanitizes anything?
Does the dish washer heat the water? If it does not then the water can only be as hot as it is when it comes out of the tap.

I once was present at a commercial kitchen during an inspection, where the inspector had us run the dish washer until it had heated the water. he then placed a thing in the machine that melted at the temperature at which it would sanitize.

This was an older machine...which passed. He commented that the newer (commerical) machines were not as good as that one and many would not reach that temperature.

I seriously doubt that a dish washer in a home would come any where near the efficiency of those machines?
 
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SabresBrew

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I plan on doing a no rinse sanitize just before bottling also. I couldn't fit all my bottles in at one time so I'll probably just leave the bottles I washed tonight in the dishwasher and then run the rest in the dishwasher 1-2 hours before I bottle. The home dishwasher has to do something. I know my dishwasher gets quite hot inside so I'm not too worried.
 

Mr Nick

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SabresBrew said:
The home dishwasher has to do something. I know my dishwasher gets quite hot inside so I'm not too worried.
As you wish...Just be informed that you would not be able to touch the inside of the commercial dishwasher mentioned in my post above. You would burn your hand. When it was opened steam literally poured out of that machine. Much more than a home dish washer. When you took the plates out of the dish washer you had to be fast...else they were to hot to deal with.

That is not to say you will not be OK...But if you are...that would indicate to me that, this sanitizing thing parroted here...is not all that it is cracked up to be.
 

Docapi

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Mr Nick said:
Does the dish washer heat the water? If it does not then the water can only be as hot as it is when it comes out of the tap.
If you look in the bottom of your dishwasher (Assuming you have one) you will see a black wire thingy.

That is a heating coil. It heats the water.
 

Mr Nick

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Docapi said:
If you look in the bottom of your dishwasher (Assuming you have one) you will see a black wire thingy.

That is a heating coil. It heats the water.
I have one...just checked...it has one. but it gets no where as hot as the machine I mentioned above. So I still question the efficiency.
The commercial one preheated the water before it entered the machine.
 

mrk305

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the dishwasher acts like an autoclave in that it will sanitize everthing inside and remain so until u open it. i usually run the washer bout 1-2 hrs before bottling, use em when they are still hottish and you'll have no problems.


me too
 

RLinNH

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I have a fairly late model Dish Washer(less then three years old). It is a top of the line Kemore Elite that has an Anti Bacterial setting. Do I trust it to Sanitize my Bottles? Not a Chance. I rinse my bottles after pulling them out of the Bleach/water solution, then I run them in a Normal wash cycle, without soap to insure that I got all the Bleach. After that, I bake the bottles for 90 minutes in my oven with Tin Foil caps on them. Then, after the bottles cool, I bottle.

I can say this for my dish Washer. When I do occasionaly run the Anti Bacterial setting, I need to be very careful opening the door of the Dish Washer. The Hot steam that pours out of it is unreal. So yeah, it might do the job, but I am just to paranoid to trust it. I take the extra step because I dealt with a run of infections that was occuring during the bottling process. I never want to go through that again.
 

cweston

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RLinNH said:
I have a fairly late model Dish Washer(less then three years old). It is a top of the line Kemore Elite that has an Anti Bacterial setting. Do I trust it to Sanitize my Bottles? Not a Chance. I rinse my bottles after pulling them out of the Bleach/water solution, then I run them in a Normal wash cycle, without soap to insure that I got all the Bleach. After that, I bake the bottles for 90 minutes in my oven with Tin Foil caps on them. Then, after the bottles cool, I bottle.
Jeebus, the sounds complicated. I just fill a big tub with iodophor and soak em a couple minutes, then let them drip dry in the dishwasher.
 

camiller

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I thought the general consensus was that the opening of the bottles is to small for a dishwasher to effectively clean them. Plus if you have a "jet dry" dispenser in there that the jet dry residue could affect head retention?

Generally I wash bottles in oxyclean with a bottle brush by hand and leave the dishwasher for the dishes.
 

willkere

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The commercial dishwasher in my fraternity is inspected once a year by the city. The water must reach 195 degrees for it to pass. FYI.
 

IowaStateFan

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camiller said:
I thought the general consensus was that the opening of the bottles is to small for a dishwasher to effectively clean them. Plus if you have a "jet dry" dispenser in there that the jet dry residue could affect head retention?

Generally I wash bottles in oxyclean with a bottle brush by hand and leave the dishwasher for the dishes.
Yep, you're right. The dishwasher won't clean the bottles, but the heat and steam will kill most of the bugs (ie. sanitize). The first time I heard about using the dishwasher to sanitize, I didn't pay attention to the instructions and thought I could take a shortcut and just wash the bottles in the dishwasher and bottle. I lost several bottles from that batch because they had stuff floating in them. Now I give them a soak in oxyclean, run the bottle brush inside them, rinse and set aside until bottling day. On bottling day I run them through the dishwasher on high heat, and heat dry. Never had a problem with infections.
 

camiller

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IowaStateFan said:
Yep, you're right. The dishwasher won't clean the bottles, but the heat and steam will kill most of the bugs (ie. sanitize). The first time I heard about using the dishwasher to sanitize, I didn't pay attention to the instructions and thought I could take a shortcut and just wash the bottles in the dishwasher and bottle. I lost several bottles from that batch because they had stuff floating in them. Now I give them a soak in oxyclean, run the bottle brush inside them, rinse and set aside until bottling day. On bottling day I run them through the dishwasher on high heat, and heat dry. Never had a problem with infections.
So you don't have any problems with the jet dry dispenser in your dishwasher? Or have you never filled it?

The original poster suggested he was in fact cleaning his bottles in the dishwasher and planed to sanitize them on botteling day.
 

iamjonsharp

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RLinNH said:
I have a fairly late model Dish Washer(less then three years old). It is a top of the line Kemore Elite that has an Anti Bacterial setting. Do I trust it to Sanitize my Bottles? Not a Chance. I rinse my bottles after pulling them out of the Bleach/water solution, then I run them in a Normal wash cycle, without soap to insure that I got all the Bleach. After that, I bake the bottles for 90 minutes in my oven with Tin Foil caps on them. Then, after the bottles cool, I bottle.

I can say this for my dish Washer. When I do occasionaly run the Anti Bacterial setting, I need to be very careful opening the door of the Dish Washer. The Hot steam that pours out of it is unreal. So yeah, it might do the job, but I am just to paranoid to trust it. I take the extra step because I dealt with a run of infections that was occuring during the bottling process. I never want to go through that again.
Yikes! That's a long process. That antibacterial setting with all the steam is all that is needed. Just put clean bottles in let it go through the wash w/o soap with the antibacterial/hot dry setting on. Then you're good to go. All the bleach water/baking is not needed. I've got a really crappy old dishwasher that won't clean dishes to save its life, but it'll sanitize bottles. That's all that it is used for.
 

iamjonsharp

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brewt00l said:
Someone better tell Palmer to correct his books.....

:)
Palmer's book is correct:

"With the exceptions of spoons, measuring cups and wide mouth jars, it is probably best to only use automatic dishwashers for heat sanitizing, not cleaning. Heat sanitizing is discussed later in this chapter."

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter2-2-1.html

"Dishwashers can be used to sanitize, as opposed to sterilize, most of your brewing equipment, you just need to be careful that you don't warp any plastic items. The steam from the drying cycle will effectively sanitize all surfaces. Bottles and other equipment with narrow openings should be pre-cleaned. Run the equipment through the full wash cycle without using any detergent or rinse agent. Dishwasher Rinse Agents will destroy the head retention on your glassware. If you pour a beer with carbonation and no head, this might be the cause."

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter2-2-3.html
 

brewt00l

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iamjonsharp said:
Palmer's book is correct:

"With the exceptions of spoons, measuring cups and wide mouth jars, it is probably best to only use automatic dishwashers for heat sanitizing, not cleaning. Heat sanitizing is discussed later in this chapter."

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter2-2-1.html

"Dishwashers can be used to sanitize, as opposed to sterilize, most of your brewing equipment, you just need to be careful that you don't warp any plastic items. The steam from the drying cycle will effectively sanitize all surfaces. Bottles and other equipment with narrow openings should be pre-cleaned. Run the equipment through the full wash cycle without using any detergent or rinse agent. Dishwasher Rinse Agents will destroy the head retention on your glassware. If you pour a beer with carbonation and no head, this might be the cause."

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter2-2-3.html
yes that is exactly what I was referring to but apparently some folks disagree that dishwashers are capable of heat sanitizing....
 

iamjonsharp

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brewt00l said:
yes that is exactly what I was referring to but apparently some folks disagree that dishwashers are capable of heat sanitizing....
Gotcha.

Hmm. So has anyone ever had a dishwasher with a heat dry/antibacterial setting that wasn't able to sanitize bottles?
 

shafferpilot

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WOW! Sanitization simply isn't as difficult as some of us are making it sound. There are the occasional bugs that move in and won't go away. But out of the thousands of members of HBT how many have had a bug like that? A couple dozen? And when those people got infections, they were horrible and no amount of bleaching, baking, etc. etc. etc. stopped it. Most of what I've read suggested those people only solved things by replacing old etched/cracked plastic parts. Doing anything more than a few no-soap runs through the dishwasher is a waste of time. If you get infected with something that can survive that, you won't kill it with any of the other methods mentioned. I think I'll double check the temp in my dishwasher with my digital thermometer and check back in with this thread.
 

shafferpilot

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Well, my test is complete, and I'm not terribly happy with the results: 150 degrees+ for the last 15 minutes of the cycle. Any comments on how that relates to sanitization???
 

IowaStateFan

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camiller said:
So you don't have any problems with the jet dry dispenser in your dishwasher? Or have you never filled it?

The original poster suggested he was in fact cleaning his bottles in the dishwasher and planed to sanitize them on botteling day.
To be honest, the jet dry dispenser rarely gets checked. We've used it but it's very hit or miss if it gets refilled. I haven't noticed any problems with head retention on my brews.

Yep, as I pointed out, I learned the hard way that the dishwasher does not clean the insides of bottles. Works great on the outsides. It'll even take off labels (though they tend to plug up the drain :cross: ).

I say clean your bottles by hand and it's okay to use the dishwasher to sanitize them on brew day.
 

IowaStateFan

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shafferpilot said:
Well, my test is complete, and I'm not terribly happy with the results: 150 degrees+ for the last 15 minutes of the cycle. Any comments on how that relates to sanitization???
That doesn't sound like it would be hot enough, but the question is what were you measuring the temperature of? I think you need to get the surfaces that you want sanitized above 180 degrees. The air temp inside the dishwasher could be less than the temp of the bottle surfaces. Not sure. I know that I've use my dishwasher to sanitize my bottles and other than not using pre-cleaned bottles the first time I've never had any problems.
 

shafferpilot

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I agree. I was really hoping to see around 200. The probe is stainless and I had it in the lower rack. I think on next bottling day, I'll put the probe in with the bottles and see what it says. If it's still that low, maybe I'll try running the heat cycle more than once and see what that does. Also, the dishwasher was empty when I ran the test, and I hurried it through the wash cycles, so that could easily skew the results. I'll sound off when I get better test results:)
 

Nazhuret

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When reheating food for service in restaurants you must take it to 165 F for a few minutes to kill the bugs.

Water boils (steam) at 212 F.
If your diswasher puts out tons of steam if you open it during the cycle just think how hot the surface of glass will be if you let it go the entire cycle.

Home machines should be more than adequate for sanitizing (again, not cleaning).

Perhaps this should be another thread but what about popping bottles into the microwave for a few seconds? That seems like it should work.
 

Evan!

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unless they're recently acquired bottles, why the need for cleaning? Seriously, if you don't rinse them out when you pour it, then you're just making more work for yourself.

Anyone who bottles should have a bottle jet, too.
 

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Nazhuret said:
Perhaps this should be another thread but what about popping bottles into the microwave for a few seconds? That seems like it should work.
No way, if I remember how microwaves work. They actually don't heat a container, they have electromagnetic waves kind of like radiowaves. The reason the food cooks is that it causes the molecules to "vibrate", causing friction which heats and cooks the food, especially fat and water molecules. It's basically non-radioactive radiation. Since there is no fat (or water) in an empty bottle, it wouldn't work. But you could maybe put those bottles in a container of water and boil them. Of course, you could do that on the stove or oven, too.
 

Dr Vorlauf

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Mr Nick said:
Please explain how the dishwasher sanitizes anything?
Does the dish washer heat the water? If it does not then the water can only be as hot as it is when it comes out of the tap.

I once was present at a commercial kitchen during an inspection, where the inspector had us run the dish washer until it had heated the water. he then placed a thing in the machine that melted at the temperature at which it would sanitize.

This was an older machine...which passed. He commented that the newer (commerical) machines were not as good as that one and many would not reach that temperature.

I seriously doubt that a dish washer in a home would come any where near the efficiency of those machines?
Usually I wash in the dishwasher and then sanitize. Never had a problem. My last batch I just used the dishwasher with a few tbs of bleach on the ultra hot. The results from this were not good, I had my very first gusher and it took me a half hour to clean up the mess. Id stick with the sanitize after option.

Also before I sanitize the bottles, I also sanitize one of those big plastic bins ( and the lid !) that have tops ( can easily buy one big enough for 100 bottles at a time. As I sanitize the bottles I put them in the sanitized bin and then seal. This is good if you want to wait until the next day and if you want to bottle immediately it is a convenient way to move the bottles around if you need.
 

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YooperBrew said:
No way, if I remember how microwaves work. They actually don't heat a container, they have electromagnetic waves kind of like radiowaves. The reason the food cooks is that it causes the molecules to "vibrate", causing friction which heats and cooks the food, especially fat and water molecules. It's basically non-radioactive radiation. Since there is no fat (or water) in an empty bottle, it wouldn't work. But you could maybe put those bottles in a container of water and boil them. Of course, you could do that on the stove or oven, too.
A microwave actually only makes water move really quickly, since it is at the same resonance frequency.

You could put water into your bottles and heat them in the microwave, but the quick temperature change would risk breaking the bottles.
 
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