Citra grapefruit pith finish

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11thStBrewing

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I've brewed 2 beers with Citra hops that I ordered when MB had pounds for $16 awhile back. I vacuum sealed them and tossed them in the freezer right away.

First beer was a 5 gallon batch of Citra, Mosaic and El Dorado hazy IPA. 1oz / gallon each hopstand and 1oz gallon each dry hop on day 3. Used A38 juice for this one. 1.060 OG 1.6l starter

Second was a 3 gallon MO SMaSH 1.060 OG fermented with US-05.
1oz @15min
2oz @2 min
3oz dry hop day 3

Both beers have a citrus/tropical aroma, but a very odd and strong grapefruit pith finish. They taste like they were dry hopped with pith. Weird.

Anyone else get this? I've never tasted a beer like this before. SMaSH pH is 4.4. didn't test the hazy. The Idaho 7 I got on sale smells of strong onion/garlic so I haven't used it. Wack hops maybe?
 
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jpitz31

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According to hop charts, Citra hops are suppose to have a grapefruit taste. Pithy is more of a texture than a flavor? Old hops are suppose to taste like wet grass or hay.

Could you be confusing grapefruit flavor with a sour beer? That could be a result of latic acid, Lactobacillus.

Or maybe you are hyper sensitive to Citra, Have you brewed this style before? Try cutting down on the Citra.

Thanks

Joe
 

Spundit

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I would think that SMaSH beer would be delicious. I am not sure how to describe the flavor of pith? Is it bitter?

The tell tale sign of old hops is a cheesy smell but its a gradual process. I suspect they taste a bit off before they smell funky. Did the hop packaging seem intact when you recieved them? Hops can age pretty quickly if not packaged and stored properly. Also, I always wonder how old hops are when I buy from a place that does not state the crop year. That said I have never recieved hops that turned out to be bad and I would expect MB can turn over their stock of citra pretty quickly.
 
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11thStBrewing

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According to hop charts, Citra hops are suppose to have a grapefruit taste. Pithy is more of a texture than a flavor? Old hops are suppose to taste like wet grass or hay.

Could you be confusing grapefruit flavor with a sour beer? That could be a result of latic acid, Lactobacillus.

Or maybe you are hyper sensitive to Citra, Have you brewed this style before? Try cutting down on the Citra.

Thanks

Joe
Thanks. Would that taste like a kettle sour? It tasts like the bite from a grapefruit with the flesh and zest.

I have a fruited Philly sour one that just finished fermenting and it's sour. Very tasty. I can't wait to try it. The SMaSH beer isn't sour, though.

Going to cut down on the next one. I'm new to brewing. Going to dry hop after fermentation as well. Will update this thread.
 
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11thStBrewing

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I would think that SMaSH beer would be delicious. I am not sure how to describe the flavor of pith? Is it bitter?

The tell tale sign of old hops is a cheesy smell but its a gradual process. I suspect they taste a bit off before they smell funky. Did the hop packaging seem intact when you recieved them? Hops can age pretty quickly if not packaged and stored properly. Also, I always wonder how old hops are when I buy from a place that does not state the crop year. That said I have never recieved hops that turned out to be bad and I would expect MB can turn over their stock of citra pretty quickly.
It's not that bad. More of a stickler. I'm new to brewing and trying to dial everything in.

The packaging seemed okay to me, but I did get some idaho7 that smell exactly like onion/garlic type funk. Haven't used them.

Guaranteed it's something I'm doing. Will update this thread hopefully soon.
 

jpitz31

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Thanks. Would that taste like a kettle sour? It tasts like the bite from a grapefruit with the flesh and zest.

I have a fruited Philly sour one that just finished fermenting and it's sour. Very tasty. I can't wait to try it. The SMaSH beer isn't sour, though.

Going to cut down on the next one. I'm new to brewing. Going to dry hop after fermentation as well. Will update this thread.

Good point on the kettle sour, I have never tried a kettle sour, so I cannot be of assistance on that one.

Good luck, That is one of the cool things about brewing your own, you can tweak your receipt until you get it the way you want it. If you are not using brewing software, then take good notes. That way you know what to try next batch.

Joe
 
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11thStBrewing

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Thanks. Going to cut down on the next one. I'm new to brewing. Going to dry hop after fermentation as well. Will update this thread.
Good point on the kettle sour, I have never tried a kettle sour, so I cannot be of assistance on that one.

Good luck, That is one of the cool things about brewing your own, you can tweak your receipt until you get it the way you want it. If you are not using brewing software, then take good notes. That way you know what to try next batch.

Joe
Great call. I use Brewfather, but only taking mental notes. I'm exciting to keep learning and I appreciate your input.
 

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Find some 3 Floyd's Zombie Dust in a store. Or Toppling Goliath Pseudo Sue. And buy it and drink it of course. They are 100% Citra hopped beers. See what you think. Maybe you just don't like citra? It's really quite OK to have a preference, I'm not a huge fan either. Not on their own anyhow, or if they are a lot stronger than other hops when several hops are used.

Idaho 7 shouldn't really have the smells you are describing, and so yeah maybe really old hops / really bad storage? Next time you buy, go somewhere else, or try online perhaps. Even if it's say a porter recipe, maybe get an ounce of the hops you are talking about and mush them up in your fingers and see how they smell. If it's onion / garlic you have an interesting nose. If it's yummy, maybe you can blame the earlier hop purchases.

Also you said 4.4 for the pH? When did you measure that - beer pH, or mashing pH?
 
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11thStBrewing

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Find some 3 Floyd's Zombie Dust in a store. Or Toppling Goliath Pseudo Sue. And buy it and drink it of course. They are 100% Citra hopped beers. See what you think. Maybe you just don't like citra? It's really quite OK to have a preference, I'm not a huge fan either. Not on their own anyhow, or if they are a lot stronger than other hops when several hops are used.

Idaho 7 shouldn't really have the smells you are describing, and so yeah maybe really old hops / really bad storage? Next time you buy, go somewhere else, or try online perhaps. Even if it's say a porter recipe, maybe get an ounce of the hops you are talking about and mush them up in your fingers and see how they smell. If it's onion / garlic you have an interesting nose. If it's yummy, maybe you can blame the earlier hop purchases.

Also you said 4.4 for the pH? When did you measure that - beer pH, or mashing pH?
Are there any places that can ship to CA that you know of? Beer wasteland where I live. Would love to try those.

Got these on sale at Morebeer. I rubbed them in my hands and tried dry hopping Bud Light with them. Didn't taste good, but probably my bad somehow.

The Idaho 7 pellets smell like onion/garlic and it was much worse in the bud light.

Final beer pH is 4.4.
 
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11thStBrewing

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I just wanted to update everyone. It's been cold conditioning for 2 weeks now and chilled out a bit.

Tastes like straight grapefruit now without any weirdness. Not my favorite, but I'm still happy with it. Very fresh tasting. Maybe dry hopping when fermentation is complete will give a different character?

I'm trying more SMaSH beers with the other hops I have.
 

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hotbeer

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For the beers I have brewed, almost all of them taste better with more time conditioning after bottling. I think only one brew tasted great right away and went downhill from there.

My current batch is still getting better and it's been bottled for over a month since being bottled. To bad I'm running out!
 
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11thStBrewing

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For the beers I have brewed, almost all of them taste better with more time conditioning after bottling. I think only one brew tasted great right away and went downhill from there.

My current batch is still getting better and it's been bottled for over a month since being bottled. To bad I'm running out!
Nice. This one didn't taste any better, really. Just a tad less of the hop character type thing (I believe)made it a bit more enjoyable.

Not a fan of these Citra hops. Only batch I've bought and both beers tasted very strong like grapefruit. Maybe I'll try the 2022 crop later on.

The longest I've had a beer in the keg was probably 4 weeks or so and I haven't noticed them get any better with time yet myself. I've brewed mostly hoppy ones so far, though.
 

hotbeer

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Not a fan of these Citra hops. Only batch I've bought and both beers tasted very strong like grapefruit. Maybe I'll try the 2022 crop later on.

I've used Citra hops, but not alone. I have some left over so maybe I should do a single hop with them and see what I think.

Generally I like a grapefruit flavor in a beer. I made a single hop a while back with Cascade earlier this year and it had a better grapefruit flavor that even the beers I've made with real grapefruit... everything but the pith which I carefully removed the zest with a sharp potato peeler.
 

IslandLizard

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Got these on sale at Morebeer
I haven't seen many complaints about MoreBeer hops, but it could be an old or bad batch.

Do you keep them stored deep frozen?
Once a bag is opened, do you squeezed the air out as much as possible (or vacuum pack them), before putting them back in the freezer?

I usually order hops from Yakima Valley Hops or HopsDirect. They've always been outstanding to very good, even hops that were on sale being 1-2 years old. Pellets mostly, I try to avoid whole hops (flowers) unless they are very fresh, and I can't get them as pellets.

BTW, what is your favorite IPA?
 
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11thStBrewing

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I haven't seen many complaints about MoreBeer hops, but it could be an old or bad batch.

Do you keep them stored deep frozen?
Once a bag is opened, do you squeezed the air out as much as possible (or vacuum pack them), before putting them back in the freezer?

I usually order hops from Yakima Valley Hops or HopsDirect. They've always been outstanding to very good, even hops that were on sale being 1-2 years old. Pellets mostly, I try to avoid whole hops (flowers) unless they are very fresh, and I can't get them as pellets.

BTW, what is your favorite IPA?
Immediately when I receive them I vacuum seal them(double seal) and chuck them in the freezer. When I use them I weigh out what I need and vacuum seal then back in the freezer.

Next time I'll try one of those sites. I've only used pellets so far. Thanks

I kind of go through phases. My all time favorite is a hazy IPA from Fall River called Numb Numb Juice. Belching Beaver has one called Hazers Gonna Haze that's always great.

For beer flavored IPA I really like Pliny the Elder, but it's a bit strong for me. Basically most not too malty 6-7% ones are good. I had a Lagunitas one recently that tasted exactly how hop pellets smell. Can't remember what it was called. That was a first.

How about you?
 
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11thStBrewing

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I've used Citra hops, but not alone. I have some left over so maybe I should do a single hop with them and see what I think.

Generally I like a grapefruit flavor in a beer. I made a single hop a while back with Cascade earlier this year and it had a better grapefruit flavor that even the beers I've made with real grapefruit... everything but the pith which I carefully removed the zest with a sharp potato peeler.
Gotcha. I'm going to continue with single hop beers and more SMaSH beers to test out the hops I have.

I gave this one to family members and they couldn't believe it didn't have actual grapefruit in it. I've never had a beer that tastes like that even with real grapefruit like you said.
 

seatazzz

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I did an all-Citra pale a while back, that while super-fresh a buddy of mine who tried it asked how much grapefruit I used in it. He was amazed when I told him it had none, just lots of hops. It settled down after a week and a bit, but fresh it did have that pith-y taste to it. In my experience, Citra shows itself best when paired with other hops; I do one with Citra & Mosaic that is wonderful.
 

hotbeer

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I still puzzle on what you are perceiving as pithy in the taste. Grapefruit pith (not zest) is mostly just astringent to me. No flavor at all.

So if it's an astringent taste you are describing as pithy, then might that be your mash pH got too high and you got some tannins from the malts and other grains?
 
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11thStBrewing

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I still puzzle on what you are perceiving as pithy in the taste. Grapefruit pith (not zest) is mostly just astringent to me. No flavor at all.

So if it's an astringent taste you are describing as pithy, then might that be your mash pH got too high and you got some tannins from the malts and other
Pretty sure I just suck and describing flavors. Could be more zesty, I suppose, but it was only cold conditioning for a week. After 2 weeks it was strong fresh pink grapefruit straight up.

No astringency. I mill a credit card gap width and take care to make sure mash pH is 5.2-5.4. calculated IBUs was 60, IIRC, but it wasn't very bitter at all. All 15 minute and later additions. Doesn't seem the same as other 60IBU beers to me. ~1.0 BU:GU ratio.

Any tips on getting better at describing flavors? I see people say things like, "I get passion fruit, guava and pineapple with a hint of citrus and pine."

I'm a redneck, but I'd like to get better. Tastes like tropical fruit. Tastes like weed. Tastes how hop pellets smell. Can't really put a finger on the exact flavors most of the time.
 

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What you experienced as grapefruit pith may have been what others describe as hop burn. It takes quite a while for the yeast and the hop particles to settle out and your beer flavor cleaning up with more cold conditioning suggests that to be the case of the bad flavor. Next time, let your beer have more time in the fermenter so the hops settle out there, then more time in the keg before chilling.
 
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11thStBrewing

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I definitely agree with giving it more time. I experienced hop burn on another beer when I took a sample before cold crashing. Was more in the back of the throat for me.
 
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