CIP Ball Question

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Lennie

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I bought a CIP ball from brewershardware. The thing is larger than I envisioned, something like 2" diameter with a 1" threaded connection. Can I possibly hope to pump enough water through this thing to blast my conical clean? Or do I need something more like a 1" diameter?
 
The pump I am trying to use is a 12V harbor freight marine utility pump, supposed to pump 260gph at 50psi. I'm using hoses for a washing machine, probably 1/2" ID and only 6' long.
 
Lennie said:
I bought a CIP ball from brewershardware. The thing is larger than I envisioned, something like 2" diameter with a 1" threaded connection. Can I possibly hope to pump enough water through this thing to blast my conical clean? Or do I need something more like a 1" diameter?
Click to expand...

You can convert your pump's maximum head rating to an effective PSI rating and see if you have enough horsepower to drive it. I have a LG 5.5-MD-HC and I decided it didn't have enough power to really drive that bad boy.

From the product description on brewershardware:

"Rotating CIP Spray Ball 1" FPT Connection. Operates on 15-100PSI, 40-60PSI is recommended. Ball diameter is 2"."

One foot of head is equivalent to a pressure of 0.433 psi
 
Lennie said:
The pump I am trying to use is a 12V harbor freight marine utility pump, supposed to pump 260gph at 50psi. I'm using hoses for a washing machine, probably 1/2" ID and only 6' long.
Click to expand...

Give it a whirl! I will be interested to see if it will work for you. Been trying to find a CIP sprayball that's a little bit smaller scale that this one, but it would work for some of my uses if you're able to drive it with a pump like that!
 
This is the pump:
12 Volt Marine Utility Water Pump

Its maximum lift (=head?) is 35ft, does that mean it will only produce 15psi? I am not understanding this very well. I'm looking at other larger sump pumps that pump more gph but their maximum lift is even less than this little pump.
 
Lennie said:
This is the pump:
12 Volt Marine Utility Water Pump

Its maximum lift (=head?) is 35ft, does that mean it will only produce 15psi? I am not understanding this very well. I'm looking at other larger sump pumps that pump more gph but their maximum lift is even less than this little pump.
Click to expand...

Their output assumption is probably 1.5" or 1.25" ID PVC pipe...
 
The connections are either 3/8" NPT female or male garden hose, so maybe they're using a garden hose ID as an assumed output.

I'll give it another whirl tonight, hopefully it will actually whirl. I ran the pump whith a battery charger and it didn't push quite hard enough to spin the ball but I'm hoping an actual battery will give better results. Will post back on the outcome. I am thinking your LG pump has to be a lot stronger than this little thing.
 
Lennie said:
I'll give it another whirl tonight, hopefully it will actually whirl. I ran the pump whith a battery charger and it didn't push quite hard enough to spin the ball but I'm hoping an actual battery will give better results. Will post back on the outcome. I am thinking your LG pump has to be a lot stronger than this little thing.
Click to expand...

TBH, I am now rethinking and recalculating. :D Also, I believe my understanding of feet of head also needs some refinement... off to the interwebz.

edit: Nope, only rated up to 17.5 psi (40.5 ft of head).
 
I posed the question to my engineer buddy (also a brewer) and he seems to think this pump will work. He said the 260gph at 50psi means theres 50psi coming out of the pump head, and that this will be lessened somewhat by the 3' or so of head to get to the top of the conical, and that should still be enough to run the spray ball (40psi).

I guess I'll see tonight, now I want to get off work early! But that is nothing new.
 
I also posed the question to Derrin at brewershardware, he thinks my pump will work because it is direct drive and can generate the needed psi. The mag-drive pump might not generate enough pressure since its designed to slip when it gets more pressure on the outlet side (from closing a valve to reduce flow for example).

Edited to add: I looked at the max psi on a March 809 and it seems to be limited to under 7psi, so I guess a mag-drive pump is out for driving most any spray ball. I did see a smaller plastic rotating spray nozzle in McMaster Carr but it is more expensive than the one I have($50 vs $29).
 
Looked again at the spec sheet for the LG 5.5 MDHC and I think it is designed to shut off at 18psi so I don't think that would push this spray ball.
 
Lennie said:
I also posed the question to Derrin at brewershardware, he thinks my pump will work because it is direct drive and can generate the needed psi. The mag-drive pump might not generate enough pressure since its designed to slip when it gets more pressure on the outlet side (from closing a valve to reduce flow for example).

Edited to add: I looked at the max psi on a March 809 and it seems to be limited to under 7psi, so I guess a mag-drive pump is out for driving most any spray ball. I did see a smaller plastic rotating spray nozzle in McMaster Carr but it is more expensive than the one I have($50 vs $29).
Click to expand...

Looking back at some older posts dealing with CIP spary balls, I recall why I abandoned my previous CIP intentions. As you noted, the PSI requirement on mag drive pumps is kind of a non-starter. Nowadays I use a spear of copper pipe with 1/16" holes drilled and this works for my needs now. I will just stick with that.

Let us know if it works for you, though.
 
Bad news on the spray ball front. Apparently theory isn't as accurate as reality. Even though the pump pushed water at a pretty good clip, it only barely moved the spray ball and wasn't squirting out enough to be effective. I even tried it at 0' head with no success. I guess I'll try a sump pump next. In the meantime I filled the Brewhemoth with cleaning solution the old fashioned way (made the kids do it) and am letting it sit overnight.

Just kidding, I could never get the kids to do something so useful.
 
Lennie said:
Bad news on the spray ball front. Apparently theory isn't as accurate as reality. Even though the pump pushed water at a pretty good clip, it only barely moved the spray ball and wasn't squirting out enough to be effective. I even tried it at 0' head with no success. I guess I'll try a sump pump next. In the meantime I filled the Brewhemoth with cleaning solution the old fashioned way (made the kids do it) and am letting it sit overnight.

Just kidding, I could never get the kids to do something so useful.
Click to expand...

I use that spray ball in mine. But I use a stainless pond pump to push it. The pump is 60 GPM. Works great.
 
I'm assuming a significantly higher gpm would bring with it a higher psi. I know people are making CIP systems with sump pumps too. I'll get it figured out, it was just dissapointing. I filled the conical with PBW solution in the meantime and I might just do a homemade copper spray tube like was mentioned earlier.
 
Randar said:
Good. Post the head rating or PSI rating for the pump so we can compare our pumps. GPM is not useful on its own.
Click to expand...

This is the pump I'm using. It's for ponds so it's oiless and has a high flow rate. But they don't list any PSI.

PUMP

I also have it setup with a 1/2PVC tube for cleaning carboys. I'm trying to get a video from my phone to Youtube, if I get it I'll post it.
 
Thats quite in depth, I'll have to study that a bit.

I did find a pump to push the 2" spray ball, it is a 1.5HP trash pump. Operates on 110V. In fact it might be too big because the Brewhemoth won't drain out as fast as the pump sprays in even with both valves wide open, so it stops every 30sec or so and then picks right back up as the water level covers the pump base. It sprays quite vigorously.
 

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