Cider yeast for Stout???

[user 303934]

I've been brewing for a little over a year and I finally hit my first serious hiccup. I found a realy nice stout recipe from a local home brew shop that closed for good. I sourced all the stuff I needed to replicate the recipe online and placed my order. On brew day everything went perfectly and I was happy. The next day when I checked on my brew there was zero evidence of fermentation. Normally within 24 hours the krausen has crashed and my blow off tube is happily bubbling away like mad. I'm assuming that the liquid irish ale yeast overheated in shipping despite the ice pack. So I rummaged around in my brew supplies and found some leftover SafCider AB01 and pitched the whole 5 gram packet in my 5 gallon carboy. Twentyfour hours later things were where I expected them to be with high krausen and plenty of bubbles in the blow off jug.
Now I'm just looking for reassurances that the cider yeast isn't going to make my nice hearty stout undrinkable.

 

[Drewch]

I'm not an expert on cider yeasts, but the main thing I'd worry about is the possibility of the cider yeast being a poor metabolizer of longer-chain sugars. Cider yeast is ¿possibly? optimized for eating the simple fruit sugars common in apple must; so fermentation might stall when it gets to just maltose, etc, remaining.

 

[user 303934]

So if I check the SG in a couple of weeks and I'm not at my target would I just add some ale yeast to finish off?
I read somewhere that some cider yeasts are "killers" so if that is the best course of action I assume that I'd want to make a very strong starter and pitch on the generous side.

 

[Drewch]

So if I check the SG in a couple of weeks and I'm not at my target would I just add some ale yeast to finish off?
I read somewhere that some cider yeasts are "killers" so if that is the best course of action I assume that I'd want to make a very strong starter and pitch on the generous side.

I tend to be a bit of nervous Nancy — so I'd be tempted to check at one week, too.

The manufacturer's documentation should tell whether it's a killer strain.

 

[VikeMan]

So if I check the SG in a couple of weeks and I'm not at my target would I just add some ale yeast to finish off?
I read somewhere that some cider yeasts are "killers" so if that is the best course of action I assume that I'd want to make a very strong starter and pitch on the generous side.

SafCider AB‑1 is a "sensitive" strain, i.e. not a killer.

 

[mashpaddled]

It's probably not a big deal and the cider yeast probably helped move fermentation along. Cider yeast, like wine yeast, tend to excel at fermenting simple sugars so the cider yeast you pitched probably did exactly that. It is possible that you underpitched the ale yeast and they showed up to the wort overwhelmed by the amount of sugar. As the cider yeast came through and started chomping on the simple sugars, it made the environment easier for the ale yeast to join the party.

It's also possible that the cider yeast didn't do much at all and the ale yeast just happened to take off at about the same time you pitched the cider yeast. Or you might see just cider yeast fermentation right now.

The only way to know what is going on and make decisions about what to do next is to track gravity and see when it stops dropping. If it drops in the vicinity of your expected FG, I wouldn't do anything at all. If it stalls along the way, you'll want to try adding additional ale yeast and maybe a little nutrient to go with it.

 

[Kickass]

I’m not convinced that 5g of cider yeast is what kicked off fermentation. Sometimes yeast is just slower to start. If your ale yeast wasn’t long expired or damaged, I find it more likely that it was just slow. That’s more plausible than an under pitch of cider yeast being responsible for initiating fermentation so soon after pitch.

 

[user 303934]

Thanks for the advice everyone I'm near 100% certain that the liquid yeast was DOA. Every other batch I've done has taken off like a rocket weather it was dry yeast sprinkeled on top or liquid yeast poured right out of the packet. I've never used a yeast starter but after this experience I think I might start.
I'm very careful to do my best at using the sicentific method and only change 1 factor at a time so I can see how it impacts my end results and the only thing different this go was that the yeast came from Southern Cali. I feel very safe in assuming that all the fermentation I'm seeing right now is from the AB01.
I think I'll go whip up a batch of StarSan and get myself a sample to check SG.
BTW here is the recipe I am working with right now.
8lbs Dark malt extract
3/4lb Roasted Barley Briess
1/2lb Caramel Malt 120L
1/4lb Viking Malt Dark Chocolate
Nugget hops 1 1/2 oz 60 min and 1/2 oz 10 min
White Labs Iris Ale 004
After my boil is done I cool with a stainless wort chiller and then transfer to carboy. Then I bubble O2 through a difuser stone for 1 min, pitch yeast and seal everything up.

 

[user 303934]

I just did a SG reading on this batch and it was 1.024. The target FG is 1.012-1.015. I'm going to check again in a few days and I'll update then for anyone who is curious.

 

[user 303934]

I repitched a full packet of dry Nottingham straight on top. As an after thought I was concerned that the AB-01 may have consumed too much sugar for the Nottingham to survive and do what I wanted so I dumped in a quart of chilled priming solution made from table sugar.
A week later my SG was 2 points lower at 1.022 but still not down to the target. I transferred to a secondary fermentation which I don't normally do and moved it into the house from the fermentation chamber in my brew shed. I'm hoping that the transfer stirred up some yeast and the slightly warmer temperatures will knock a few more points off.
Either way in a couple of days I'm going to bottle it. I'll update with the last gravity reading and details of a taste test at bottling. Then I'll let it condition and age in my fermentation chamber at a steady temperature for a few weeks.

 

[43North]

How’d it turn out, I feel like I just read a great book but the last chapter was torn out