cider stabilizing problems

[Duane]

So, now that I have a kegging system I'm trying to make my first batch of sweet, sparkling hard cider. But now I have a glitch in my plan and need some advice.

I fermented my cider with US-05 all the way out. Then I cooled my primary overnight to just above freezing. The next day I kegged, fined with gelatin, and back sweetened, then put in kegerator.

The problem is my cider, 3-4 days later, is still extremely cloudy and (seems to me) yeasty. The only thing I can think of is that the 46 degree kegerator temperature was not low enough to cold crash the US-05 yeast after back sweetening, and that fermentation has picked up again with yeast in suspension - even in those low temperatures.

I have pulled at least 3-4 pints with the same results, so the problem is NOT that I'm just pulling off gelatin/yeast sludge. It really does appear as if the entire 5 gallon batch is like this.

Assuming I'm right, what's the next best step? I have cambden tablets on hand. Should I crush up and dissolve 5 of them and throw them in the keg? Is that enough to take care of the suspended yeast by itself or do I also need to go buy Potassium Sorbate? I'd rather not use the sorbate if possible to 1. avoid the extra trip to the homebrew store and 2. avoid problems with off flavors from adding sorbate to an active fermentation (I read something about geraniums?).

Thanks!

 

[phug]

Crash it or let it finish stabilize then aorbate it and back sweeten



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[bernardsmith]

Apples contain pectin. Have you tried to clear your cider by adding pectic enzymes? K-sorbate simply stops the yeast from budding. I have never heard that it causes the yeast to flocculate and drop out of suspension. You might try adding bentonite clay. The clay will attract charged particles and the weight will force them to drop out of suspension. The other problem may be that your cider was not allowed to degas and the CO2 has kept all kinds of fruit and yeast particles in suspension. I generally allow my cider to age months in the carboy before I think about bottling and that time, together with racking every couple of months allows the cider to clear, but I typically add pectic enzyme 24 hours before I pitch the yeast. .

 

[Duane]

If the problem is indeed yeast in suspension are y'all saying I would NOT have luck just using cambden tablets (potassium metabisulfate) at this point?

On a related note, can I back sweeten AND use stabilizers at the exact same time, or do I need to give stabilizers a certain amount of time to work before back sweetening?

 

[Duane]

I really don't want to go through the trouble and time of warming my cider back up to room temperature to let the yeast finish doing their thing at a normal rate, so I think I'm going to try this... I'm going to add a combination of campden and sorbate and frozen concentrate all at the same time while keeping everything at kegerator temperature (38 degrees right now, I believe) and hope a majority of the yeast cells drop out over the next several days.

If anyone sees a significant problem in this plan, please let me know. (I don't need to worry about trapping too much sulfur dioxide in the keg by sealing it right after adding campden tabs, do I? I mean, isn't it a normal thing to add campden to wine immediately before bottling?)

I'm still amazed that US-05 yeast cells are sticking around in suspension at 38 degrees. The pints I'm pulling out of my keg right now are every bit as thick and milky as a yeast starter, and they taste kind of like one, too.

 

[Descender]

Wait a day or two before you add any additional sugars would be my guess. Let your Kmeta and sorbate knock down the yeast a bit. Can you rack to another keg?

 

[Duane]

It wouldn't be convenient to free up another keg at the moment. Wouldn't it work just as well to pull the dead/sterilized yeast off the bottom through the faucet? Or what purpose did you have in mind for racking?