Chocolate Oatmeal Imperial Stout Recipe Help

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DanielG

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I've been wanting to do an imperial version of Rogue's Shakespeare Oatmeal Stout for awhile, but I wanted to adjust it to my liking. The goal of this recipe is to have a stout with more chocolate / caramel and much more mouth feel. What I want is a Chocolate Oatmeal Imperial Stout.

One of the stouts I was looking at in another area of HBT was Oskar Blues Ten-Fiddy recipe, which calls for the following grain bill:

12 LBS 13.6 OZ Pale Malt (55.5%)
3 LBS 10.4 OZ Munich Malt 10L (15.8%)
1 LBS 15.2 OZ Flaked Oats (8.4%)
1 LBS 10.4 OZ Caramel Malt 60L (7.1%) ***
1 LBS 10.4 OZ Chocolate Malt (7.1%)
1 LBS 6.4 OZ Roasted Barley (6%)

*** Calls for British Crystal malt 53L, I would be substituting Caramel 60L because that is what I have available.

With a 66.5% efficiency it's intended to have a 1.107 OG, 88 IBU's, 55.2 SRM, 1.030 FG and 10.5% ABV.

When doing research for the Rogue Shakespeare Stout I looked at Brew Your Own's recipe here: http://byo.com/grains/item/3012-rogue-shakespeare-stout-clone.

And another clone recipe for the Shakespeare stout found here: http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/9541/rogue-shakespeare-stout-clone.

In the recipe Shakespeare stout directly above, for a 5 gallon batch, they used:
9 LBS 10 OZ Pale malt (67%)
1 LBS 9 OZ Caramel 120 (11%)
1 LBS 9 OZ Chocolate malt (11%)
1 LBS 6 OZ Flaked Oats (9.5%)
3.5 OZ Roasted Barley (1.5%)

My REVISED, but not yet finalized recipe, taking into consideration comments, the Ten-Fiddy and the above Shakespeare Recipe I've adjusted my recipe to the following:

15 LBS 8 OZ Maris Otter (66.3%)
2 LBS 8 OZ Flaked Oats (10.7%)
2 LBS Chocolate Malt (8.6%)
1 LBS 8 OZ Caramel 60L (6.4%)
1 LBS 8 OZ Caramel 120L (6.4%)
6 OZ roasted Barley (1.6%)
4 OZ Cascade @ 60 minutes
2 OZ Cascade @ Flameout for 30 minute whirlpool
Rogue's Pacman Yeast - Wyeast 1764

This recipe is intended to hit a 1.105 OG, 72 IBU's, have 54.3 SRM, a FG of 1.029, and a ABV of 10.1%. 60 minute saccharification rest at 156*F and sparge at 168*F. I'll figure out water chemistry later, but I think I'm going to go for London water profile.

I'm looking into a way I can drop caramel / chocolate malts and

So, let me know what you think! Suggestions / advice or all out ridicule would be more than welcome.
 
2.5 POUNDS of chocolate malt seems like HUGE overkill for a 5-gallon batch of anything! Even 0.5 lbs gives a 5 gallon batch a nice chocolate roasty flavor.
 
2.5 POUNDS of chocolate malt seems like HUGE overkill for a 5-gallon batch of anything! Even 0.5 lbs gives a 5 gallon batch a nice chocolate roasty flavor.

Yes, this is what I was thinking. I know I wanted more chocolate and not more roast, but I wasn't sure how to achieve that. I was really just looking at percents and trying to keep them in line with the original. Any suggestions to what I should drop it down to?
 
Thanks! Knowing that the original recipe uses 9.5% flaked oats, what do you think would be a reasonable increase to get more mouthfeel without killing it?

I wouldn't bump up the oats at all. Too much can be a bad idea. 1lb max I was thinking even for an Imperial stout.
With all the other things going on in the recipe I don't believe a lack of mouth feel will be a concern.

I think your specialty grains are too much. Too much crystal and chocolate

Black sugary granular beer will be a likely outcome with the recipe as is. I am very inexperienced however and usually take tried and true recipes and tweak them here and there. I think folks like yourself who formulate recipes from scratch and post them here for assessment deserve much more knowledgeable critics than me. I'm sure someone with greater knowledge will steer you right in time. In all sincerity I commend you for your creativity. I just fear the recipe as written is seriously flawed.
 
I wouldn't bump up the oats at all. Too much can be a bad idea. 1lb max I was thinking even for an Imperial stout.
With all the other things going on in the recipe I don't believe a lack of mouth feel will be a concern.

I think your specialty grains are too much. Too much crystal and chocolate

Black sugary granular beer will be a likely outcome with the recipe as is. I am very inexperienced however and usually take tried and true recipes and tweak them here and there. I think folks like yourself who formulate recipes from scratch and post them here for assessment deserve much more knowledgeable critics than me. I'm sure someone with greater knowledge will steer you right in time. In all sincerity I commend you for your creativity. I just fear the recipe as written is seriously flawed.

Well thank you for the help! The amount of specialty grain / oats was my biggest concern because those are what I had tweaked from the Shakespeare clone recipe I had found online.

The reason I bumped the Oats up so significantly was because I had read a few sources [https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/oatmeal-percentage-stout-110175/] that listed oats up to 20% of the grain bill for stouts. Knowing that I wanted that creamy mouthfeel I figured I could really push those, while being under the 20%, and still be OK.

The reason I added so much chocolate / caramel malts was because I wanted to have more chocolate / caramel notes. The original recipe already used 1 LBS 9 OZ of each for a 5 gallon recipe so I just tried to keep those grains proportional percentage wise with the original.

The Oats are really the only thing percentage wise that I increased significantly. However, I don't want a nasty black sugary beer.

An alternative I was looking at to give the brew the chocolate / sweetness without increasing the chocolate / caramel malts from the original recipe was cocoa nibs and vanilla beans in secondary.
 
Well thank you for the help! The amount of specialty grain / oats was my biggest concern because those are what I had tweaked from the Shakespeare clone recipe I had found online.

The reason I bumped the Oats up so significantly was because I had read a few sources [https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/oatmeal-percentage-stout-110175/] that listed oats up to 20% of the grain bill for stouts. Knowing that I wanted that creamy mouthfeel I figured I could really push those, while being under the 20%, and still be OK.

The reason I added so much chocolate / caramel malts was because I wanted to have more chocolate / caramel notes. The original recipe already used 1 LBS 9 OZ of each for a 5 gallon recipe so I just tried to keep those grains proportional percentage wise with the original.

The Oats are really the only thing percentage wise that I increased significantly. However, I don't want a nasty black sugary beer.

An alternative I was looking at to give the brew the chocolate / sweetness without increasing the chocolate / caramel malts from the original recipe was cocoa nibs and vanilla beans in secondary.

I see where you are coming from. With most specialty grains the maximum will be listed. Just remember that if you are approaching the maximum on multiple specialty malts/adjuncts there will be just too much competing flavors and not enough base malt to harmonize everything. Vanilla beans is an idea I have not tried. I reckon it would work well in the FV.

For chocolate flavor I'm not sure what would work. Chocolate malt does not taste of chocolate of course. Cocoa nibs perhaps is again a good idea.

I tried a British chocolate stout at the weekend I picked up in Costco of all places. I did not enjoy it I'm afraid. Perhaps it was just a bad example of one.
 
After doing a bit more research today I've made some changes to the recipe. One of the stouts I was looking at in another area of HBT was Oskar Blues Ten-Fiddy. That recipe calls for the following grain bill:

12 LBS 13.6 OZ Pale Malt (55.5%)
3 LBS 10.4 OZ Munich Malt 10L (15.8%)
1 LBS 15.2 OZ Flaked Oats (8.4%)
1 LBS 10.4 OZ Caramel Malt 60L (7.1%) ***
1 LBS 10.4 OZ Chocolate Malt (7.1%)
1 LBS 6.4 OZ Roasted Barley (6%)

*** Calls for British Crystal malt 53L, I would be substituting Caramel 60L because that is what I have available.

With a 66.5% efficiency it's intended to have a 1.107 OG, 88 IBU's, 55.2 SRM, 1.030 FG and 10.5% ABV.

I've adjusted my recipe to the following:

15 LBS 8 OZ Maris Otter (66.3%)
2 LBS 8 OZ Flaked Oats (10.7%)
2 LBS Chocolate Malt (8.6%)
1 LBS 8 OZ Caramel 60L (6.4%)
1 LBS 8 OZ Caramel 120L (6.4%)
6 OZ roasted Barley (1.6%)

This recipe is intended to hit a 1.105 OG, 72 IBU's, have 54.3 SRM, a FG of 1.029, and a ABV of 10.1%.

Any suggestions??
 
I see where you are coming from. With most specialty grains the maximum will be listed. Just remember that if you are approaching the maximum on multiple specialty malts/adjuncts there will be just too much competing flavors and not enough base malt to harmonize everything. Vanilla beans is an idea I have not tried. I reckon it would work well in the FV.

For chocolate flavor I'm not sure what would work. Chocolate malt does not taste of chocolate of course. Cocoa nibs perhaps is again a good idea.

I tried a British chocolate stout at the weekend I picked up in Costco of all places. I did not enjoy it I'm afraid. Perhaps it was just a bad example of one.

You've actually just touched on something I never even considered.. What if the chocolate malts don't actually taste or lend the chocolate flavors I was hoping for...

Speaking of Costco, I was shocked to find Stone Enjoy By there for $6 a 22 OZ bomber. NOT BAD! :)
 
You've actually just touched on something I never even considered.. What if the chocolate malts don't actually taste or lend the chocolate flavors I was hoping for...

Speaking of Costco, I was shocked to find Stone Enjoy By there for $6 a 22 OZ bomber. NOT BAD! :)

The flavor is often described as bitter/roasty like coffee or chocolate. But it is more the bitter astringent component of the chocolate rather than a chocolate flavor most people would describe as chocolate. Just like caramel malt does not taste like caramel and I guess maris otter does not taste like an otter.:mug:
 
I would not go over 1 lb of chocolate malt in this recipe and same with Caramel/Crystal malt, stay at 1 lb or so.

You can add some chocolate flavor with nibs or even cocoa powder added at the end of the boil while cooling the wort. Another thing to consider may be Lactose since it would add some residual sweetness to the bear. For what you are after hear you don't want a dry beer. Lactose is often added to milk stouts to give them residual sweetness. Maybe 0.5 lbs would do the trick for you. I would avoid roasted barley in a chocolate stout. Roasted barley gives you more of an espresso/black coffee flavor.

You can use debittered black malt (also called Carafa III) or midnight wheat if you want to add black color to a stout without the burnt/roast overpowering flavors.
 
I have a chocolate oatmeal imperial stout in the keg now... I used 2 pounds of oats I believe (a lot I know) but way lees chocolate malt than mentioned here along with bebittered black malt and a small amount of roasted barley. I used the artificial chocolate extract sold at the home brew supply store... unlike the fake apricot extract which was pretty bad in my #9 clone the chocolate stuff tastes very good in the beer... real chocolate would have been best I know...

I tasted it yesterday as it went in the keg and for a 9% + avb beer its very smooth and good! hopefully it tastes just as good on my beergas/ nitro stout tap :)
 
I would not go over 1 lb of chocolate malt in this recipe and same with Caramel/Crystal malt, stay at 1 lb or so.

You can add some chocolate flavor with nibs or even cocoa powder added at the end of the boil while cooling the wort. Another thing to consider may be Lactose since it would add some residual sweetness to the bear. For what you are after hear you don't want a dry beer. Lactose is often added to milk stouts to give them residual sweetness. Maybe 0.5 lbs would do the trick for you. I would avoid roasted barley in a chocolate stout. Roasted barley gives you more of an espresso/black coffee flavor.

You can use debittered black malt (also called Carafa III) or midnight wheat if you want to add black color to a stout without the burnt/roast overpowering flavors.

Thank you Jayhem! I will look into Carafa II and Lactose. I do want a small amount of residual sweetness and not a dry stout. :)
 
I have a chocolate oatmeal imperial stout in the keg now... I used 2 pounds of oats I believe (a lot I know) but way lees chocolate malt than mentioned here along with bebittered black malt and a small amount of roasted barley. I used the artificial chocolate extract sold at the home brew supply store... unlike the fake apricot extract which was pretty bad in my #9 clone the chocolate stuff tastes very good in the beer... real chocolate would have been best I know...

I tasted it yesterday as it went in the keg and for a 9% + avb beer its very smooth and good! hopefully it tastes just as good on my beergas/ nitro stout tap :)

Thanks augiedoggy, I've got a few questions for you. With the 2 LBS of oats did you find your stout too oily or more creamy? What amounts of grains did you use for your recipe, and how many gallons was it?

How did you like the artificial chocolate extract overall? I've been looking into cocoa nibs and brewers chocolate for the secondary, but I wanted to stay away from doing too much to it.

Also, I'm extremely jealous you have it on beer gas!! That is definitely something I want when I upgrade to a kegging system.
 
Thanks augiedoggy, I've got a few questions for you. With the 2 LBS of oats did you find your stout too oily or more creamy? What amounts of grains did you use for your recipe, and how many gallons was it?

How did you like the artificial chocolate extract overall? I've been looking into cocoa nibs and brewers chocolate for the secondary, but I wanted to stay away from doing too much to it.

Also, I'm extremely jealous you have it on beer gas!! That is definitely something I want when I upgrade to a kegging system.

here is a screenshot of the recipe...I got it from beersmith and modified it a bit. the chocolate isnt there because I couldnt find where to add it but I used the whole 4 oz bottle.

Capture.PNG
 
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