Chocolate Cherry Stout question

[Tam004]

So I'm planning do so a chocolate cherry stout this weekend and I have a few questions. The recipe I'm using calls for adding the cherries to the primary and the chocolate nibs to the secondary. Do I add the cherries at the end of the boil or after it is cooled and in the primary? If I add them after the boil, do I have to sterilize them and how would I do that? I am planning on using frozen cherries that I will thaw and crush before adding them. Also, do I just add the chocolate nibs to the secondary or do I have to sanitize them?

This is my first brew that I'm trying that has any fruit or chocolate added so I just want to know the best way to get it right.

 

[hopsalot]

I would throw the frozen cherries in the the fermentor frozen whole. They are sanitzed due to being frozen and since they are frozen the cell walls are broken allowing flavor to pour into your beer.

I would say the nibs are sanitary right out of the bag, but if it makes you sleep better at night you can toss them quickly into some sanitizer

 

[pericles]

When you add fruit, your two concerns are sanitation and flavor.

Adding fruit to the boil guarantees that it will be sanitary, if you leave it in for long enough. Doing so, however, will volatolize off most of the flavor.

Adding fruit to the primary is a little better, but the active yeast will scrub a lot of the fruit flavors out of the beer and, because the beer is still alcohol free, it's a GREAT environment for wild-yeast and bacteria. That means that sanitation is a must for fruit added in primary.

Adding fruit after fermentation has ended is a better alternative. The yeast is less active, so it's not scrubbing out flavor. The beer already has alcohol in solution, so wild-yeast and bacteria growth is slowed. I still think that sanitation is important, but you don't have to worry yourself sick.

Hopsalot writes that because the cherries he uses are frozen, "the cell walls are broken allowing flavor to pour into your beer." I've heard this before, but can't speak for it myself: I'm not sure why the organelles of a cherry cell would taste better than the cell-wall. . . but it's definitely something that's been floating around a lot, so I can't disagree.

He also writes that his cherries "are sanitzed due to being frozen". I think he means that because they are commercially packaged, he's comfortable assuming they are pre-sanitized. I agree that that's a safe bet, but I like to stun the bacteria with a quick boil and then a sudden chill. Why take a chance if it's something you're looking forward to? In any event, to be clear: just freezing the cherries will NOT sanitize them.

Something I've wondered about is using a sous-vide bag to boil the cherries - that way they wouldn't get wet even when they were being heated. I guess throwing them in the oven would do the same thing. . . but the bag just feels sanitary-er to me. So that's another thought.

Same deal goes for the chocolate as for the cherries: sanitation/flavor.

 

[zachary80]

I would throw the frozen cherries in the the fermentor frozen whole. They are sanitzed due to being frozen and since they are frozen the cell walls are broken allowing flavor to pour into your beer.

Why would freezing the cherries sanitize them?

 

[smalliewader]

I always add my cherries to the secondary in my cherry stout. I buy fresh cherries, freeze them to break the skins and dunk real quick in star san for added insurance. I go right from freezer to star san to secondary, no thawing. Never had a problem.

As said above, putting the fruit in the primary won't give much fruit flavor, only convert the sugars to alcohol...which will still happen in secondary, only allowing the fruit to also add flavor.

 

[squirrelly]

I agree with the above post. Just because something is frozen does not mean it is sanitized. The yeast present on the fruit have simply gone dormant. Once these cells are woken up they will start an active fermentation once again. A good example of this is a beer that was left in a freezer when the temp control unit failed. It was halfway through primary, and turned into a beer slushy. Once the mechanical problem was corrected fermentation resumed, and it was the cleanest lager I've ever made. This is done to ice bocks intentionally.

I too would add the cherries to secondary, or forego adding actual fruit all together, and inject a drop or two of cherry extract to each bottle on bottling day. I prefer this anyway, so you can decide just how much cherry is in your beer.

[email protected]. on tap: homemade sarsaparilla and easy virtue blonde. primary: heffewitzen, blow your top steam. conditioning: fruity monk Belgian wit

 

[tgmartin000]

I believe you can add camden tablets to the fresh fruit to kill any wild yeast as well. Crush the cherries slightly, add a tablet, let sit in a secondary for a few days, then rack on top of it.

 

[JasonToews]

I make my dunkelweizen with cherry wood after fermentation. I find its more desirable taste then adding cherries them self as they can give off a sourness.

 

[hopsalot]

.
I agree that that's a safe bet, but I like to stun the bacteria with a quick boil and then a sudden chill.

Interesting, I Like the idea, may try it out sometime

 

[hopsalot]

Why would freezing the cherries sanitize them?

I was referring to commercially frozen fruit, If I am using fresh fruit I will boil or steam the fruit and dip in sanitizer

 

[Tam004]

Okay, so I started brewing the stout yesterday. I have decided to add the cherries to the secondary along with the cocoa nibs. I will be sanitizing the cocoa nibs by soaking them in vodka while I'm waiting for fermentation to take place. I am wondering if it would be okay to sanitize the cherries with vodka as well?

 

[two_hearted]

I am wondering if it would be okay to sanitize the cherries with vodka as well?

Lots of people do it this way.

 

[Paulgs3]

Has anyone ever tried mashing the cherries?

I ask because my pumpkin ale came out awesome, and that was mashed.

 

[squirrelly]

I would probably dip the nibs and cherries in Star-San for a minute or two. Vodka will probably do the trick, but I am paranoid that it would not kill all of the bacteria scattering around on these adjuncts. A quick Star-San dip would surely do the trick, and still have no effect on the beer as far as taste.

[email protected]. on tap: easy virtue blonde, fruity monk belgian wit. primary: American pale ale, American stout, blow your top steam, and heffewitzen

 

[Tam004]

So I transferred the stout to the secondary on top of the cherries and cocoa nibs, which I ended up soaking in bourbon, a week ago. I tasted the stout left in the hydrometer and it was amazing by itself so I have high hopes for the end product.

My question now is, how long can I leave it on the cherries and cocoa? Will it develop off tastes if left too long?

 

[LKABrewer]

You have to be careful with fruit in secondary growing mold on the top, where it is not in the beer. Either punch the fruit down into the beer daily, or rack it off after 1 week.

 

[ThatGuyRyan]

Okay, so I started brewing the stout yesterday. I have decided to add the cherries to the secondary along with the cocoa nibs. I will be sanitizing the cocoa nibs by soaking them in vodka while I'm waiting for fermentation to take place. I am wondering if it would be okay to sanitize the cherries with vodka as well?

Last batch of nibs I got and soaked in Vodka still went funky on me. Beer turned out fine but the secondary got a bit furry! I brewed a second chocolate stout soon after and soaked the nibs for that one in Everclear 191 proof and no issues with the nibs.

 

[Tam004]

Just to follow up on my Chocolate Cherry Bourbon Stout. I opened up the first bottle last night. It was nicely carbonated after 3 weeks in the bottle at around 70 degrees. It tasted awesome. This being just my third brew I was ecstatic. The bourbon made its presence ever so softly in the background and the cherries and chocolate were nicely balanced. It was very easy to drink and I can't wait to try the next one.

 

[LKABrewer]

How long did you leave it in secondary?

 

[Tam004]

It spent 4 weeks in the primary then 2 weeks in the secondary with the bourbon, chocolate and cherries.

 

[one8tvw]

Did you have to add yeast for bottling? How much cacao & cherries did you use?

 

[Tam004]

Did you have to add yeast for bottling? How much cacao & cherries did you use?

No, I did not add any additional yeast at bottling. I made a one gallon batch and for that I used 12 ounces of frozen black cherries and 6 ounces of cocoa nibs. I sterilized the cherries and cocoa nibs in enough Bourbon to cover in a small bowl. I dumped the whole bowl then into the secondary fermenter.

 

[Vcreations]

I must say the idea of doing a Cherry Bourbon Stout is extremely appealing, do to the fact that i got an early xmas present of a Black Cherry Stout Recipe from AHS from a friend.

I know that from my experience with making some mead, I have had great results out of using frozen fruits (raspberries and oranges that i froze myself) and haven't had to sanitize them any further than just taking them out of the bag and putting them in the fermentor. I know some might say that it isn't sanitary, but i'm not one of those people that stresses over sanitation (atleast until there is no heat or Alcohol present).

I must say though that i've never had any luck with fruit during the mash (except for pumpkin) and have always added it to the secondary in beer (or the extract right before bottling). I have not tried bourbon so that will be something new to try!!