Chinook + Cascade + ?? = ??(grapefruit?)

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LouT

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I still want to do an ale with a grapefruit taste. I just bought 1 oz Chinook pellets and 4 oz Cascade (fresh) along with 4 oz Hallertau (fresh) when I was at LHBS on Friday.

I have 5 lb wheat DME and 5 lb extra light DME, along with some leftover Spalt and Perle hops. Planning to do another hefe (Franzi clone went REALLY fast), but would like to use the Irish Ale yeast I have harvested on this next non-hefe.
I have a variety of steeping grains in stock - mostly different LB roastings of Crystal & caramel malts.
Thoughts or suggested recipes?
Should I have gone for Amarillo?
I keep hearing various hops described as "grapefruit" but would really like to get some info from someone that knows more than I do about hop flavors...

Note: Can't make this one an IPA, too bitter for SWMBO -- maybe a blonde or cream ale style?
 

david_42

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My 3CPA uses Columbus, Chinook, Cascades, Perl and Amarillo. It looked, smelled and tasted like grapefruit juice while fermenting. It's in the keg now and I'll be tasting it again next week.
 
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LouT

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Please please keep me posted. I want to do this (for me and for SWMBO) but need to keep the bitterness down to reasonable. Is that your own recipe and were you going after the grapefruit-ness on purpose?

Where does the graperfruit taste and smell come from - the chinook and cascade, or the combination of certain hops?
 

ColoradoXJ13

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I would stick with all cascade and centennial, and you can use amarillo too. My first IPA came out super citrusy and delicious.

8# Pale Malt Extract
2# Great Western 2-row Pale Malt
1# Crystal 15L

4oz Centennial whole aa 9.0%
4oz Cascade whole aa 6.6%
0.25oz Amarillo whole aa 9.8%
1oz Columbus pellets aa 15.6% (dry hop)

Re-pitched on Wyeast 1056 yeast cake from Magic Hat #9 (73-77% Attenuation)

-Steep grains at 160*F 30 min, remove grain bag and bring wort to boil.
-Add LME
-Add Amarillo, and 2 oz Centennial (0’)
-Add 2 oz Cascade (15’)
-Add 2 oz Centennial (30’)
-Add 2 oz Cascade (50’) and ¼ tsp irish moss
-Turn off at 60’, strain into cooling bucket, cool to 75*F, dump onto yeast cake, aerate.

Now that I am doing all grain, I am going to brew two more batches but convert to all grain. I plan on doing it soon for an IPA competition a local brew-pub is having, I am going to leave one normal, and the second I am going to rack onto a couple crushed grapefruits in the secondary. Both of the winners of the stout competition this winter had non-typical ingredients (Toasted Coconut Stout and an Oak Stoked Stout) and I think the judges might like the grapefruit addition (I blatantly stole the idea from someone on here...)
 

Grimsawyer

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david_42 said:
My 3CPA uses Columbus, Chinook, Cascades, Perl and Amarillo. It looked, smelled and tasted like grapefruit juice while fermenting. It's in the keg now and I'll be tasting it again next week.
How much colombus did you use? was it for bittering or finishing? (had a bad couple experiences with that hop. I't a rough one.;) )
 

Reidman

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I believe the citrusy grapefruit tones come from primarily cascade hops.

I pretty much drink nothing but IPA's and that seems to fit the hop profile of most of those.

Also centennial hops can create a mild citrusy flavor.

One of the IIPA's I absolutely love is Avery's Maharaja and it has a strong grapefruit aftertaste. It's hop bill is Magnum, Crystal, Centennial & Simcoe.
 

ColoradoXJ13

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Reidman said:
One of the IIPA's I absolutely love is Avery's Maharaja and it has a strong grapefruit aftertaste. It's hop bill is Magnum, Crystal, Centennial & Simcoe.
huh, I definitely see the citrusy notes in the aroma, but I get much more of an earthy flavor in the taste.
 

GerryL

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Robin & I were in Miami last month and stopped at the Titanic Brewery. They had an ale with a strong grapefruit finish. We liked it and decided to attempt something similiar for our first homebrew in over 10 years, thinking it would be nice when warm weather arrives. We started with a Northern Brewers extra pale ale kit (grain version, described as citrusy) and added an extra 2 oz of fresh Cascade hops for the last 10 min. We bottled last week, and had a taste...so far so good! I can't wait to try it!
 
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LouT

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GerryL said:
Robin & I were in Miami last month and stopped at the Titanic Brewery. They had an ale with a strong grapefruit finish. We liked it and decided to attempt something similiar for our first homebrew in over 10 years, thinking it would be nice when warm weather arrives. We started with a Northern Brewers extra pale ale kit (grain version, described as citrusy) and added an extra 2 oz of fresh Cascade hops for the last 10 min. We bottled last week, and had a taste...so far so good! I can't wait to try it!
Sounds nice. I had a similar experience, at the Porsmouth Brewery - I think it was their Cream Ale - wife loved it as well as I did, which is very unusual. Would love to know how close you came to that grapefruit flavor. Welcome back to homebrewing, too, by the way!!
 
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LouT

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I tried a sample of Maharaja yesterday. It seems to have what I call "grapefruit" flavor/aroma. For me it was more bitter than I would enjoy for a full pint, but I did enjoy the sample very much. Can you get that "grapefruit" without being over-the-top bitter, or is the bitterness part of what makes it seem like grapefruit, I wonder?
 

gERgMan

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I posted this somewhere else, but it is relevant to the question you are asking here. I had decided to make a DogFish IPA clone a few months ago. Ended up not really being much of a clone, but I had used the hops that are commonly found in this style (Cascade, Simcoe, Centennial, and I forget the other one). I ended up using this White Labs yeast, California "V" ale. Similar to the California ale, but yields a fruitier, more bodied beer. Ended up giving me quite a grapefruit taste to this IPA. I think it was a combination of the hops chosen and this yeast strain. Might be worth trying if that is what you are after.
 

Llarian

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The WLP051 is more or less the same as Wyeast 1272. It does give a nice tart flavor.

Its a bit more flocculant and "stickier" for lack of a better term, so it tends to ferment slower and get stuck more easily.

Tasty yeast though! Especially in combination with some of the hops mentioned earlier in the thread.

-D
 
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LouT

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gERgMan said:
I posted this somewhere else, but it is relevant to the question you are asking here. I had decided to make a DogFish IPA clone a few months ago. Ended up not really being much of a clone, but I had used the hops that are commonly found in this style (Cascade, Simcoe, Centennial, and I forget the other one). I ended up using this White Labs yeast, California "V" ale. Similar to the California ale, but yields a fruitier, more bodied beer. Ended up giving me quite a grapefruit taste to this IPA. I think it was a combination of the hops chosen and this yeast strain. Might be worth trying if that is what you are after.
Did you enjoy this? Would you post the recipe, as brewed, with some comments about flavor/aroma/etc? Sounds nice to me, if the IBU total isn't crazy high.
 

david_42

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The 3CPA is coming along nicely. Still has a strong grapefruit note and a tiny bit sweet. I haven't dry hopped it yet.

The bittering level and the hop flavor/aroma aren't really connected. the first addition (or first two in the 3CPA) has the strongest impact on bitterness. Adds made in the last 20 minutes won't increase bittering much. You could cut the Columbus & Chinook adds by 1/4 ounce, reducing the bittering about 20%, but that won't change the nose at all.
 

banjopicker16

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I dry-hopped with 2 oz cascade and normal, or bad beer drinkers, said it tasted like grapefruit juice. I used the freshest hops ever! It was grand.... now its gone.
 

gERgMan

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I will get that recipe posted, I need to go through my log books and find the exact hop profile I used to make this. Had another one this weekend, very unique. I like it, not sure if others do, but it's for me to like, not them.
 

ColoradoXJ13

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My recipe from this weekend...we'll see how this turns out

4# Marris Otter
4# Rahr 2-row
4# Munich
0.75# Crystal 15L
0.75# CaraPils

122*F 30min
154*F 1hr

2oz Cascade + 2oz Centennial 60 min
2oz Cascade + 2oz Centennial 30 min
2oz Cascade + 2oz Centennial 10min
2oz Cascade + 2oz Centennial 2 min

yeast is a strain from the XXX IPA at a local brewpub that I cultured. OG 1.064

I actually meant to add 1 oz of each hop at each addition, something in my brain wasn't working, so I added 2x the hops I meant to....whoops...probably a result of brewing on 4/21 with a massive hangover etc.

I am planning on dry hopping w/ 2oz cascade, and when bottling, boiling some grapefruit and lemon zest in water, and adding until the flavor is there and I like it.

This is for an IPA contest at a local brewpub.
 
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LouT

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Must have some crazy high IBUs on that one!
 

gERgMan

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Sorry for the delay in this recipe!

IPA-Grapefruit Taste (*NOTE: this was for a 2.5-3 gal. batch, adjust accordingly*):

-3 lb. Briess Pilsen Light DME
-1 lb. Northwestern Amber DME
-1 lb. Pilsen Malt (grain)

-1 oz. Amarillo Loose Raw hops
-0.5 oz. Simcoe Pellet hops
-0.5 oz. Cascade Leaf hops

- 1 TBSP. Gypsum


-White Labs California V Ale Yeast (WLP051), no starter made, just pitched the vial

I divided all of the hops into 9 equal batches and added a batch every 10 min. during the boil. I dry-hopped in the secondary for about a week with 1 oz. Amarillo, 0.5 oz. Simcoe, and 0.5 oz. Cascade.

This beer has been in the bottles for over a month now. Very grapefruit/citrusy taste! I like it quite a bit, just not a beer that you would want to drink a bunch of in one sitting. Very unique, though! I was suprised with how it came out, in a good way.
 

lizard tail

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I like the citrusy taste too. I found the one link between the IPA's that fit that discription and the hops that are used - Amarillo- Goose Island IPA draft is a classic example and large amounts of Amarillo are used (check their website).
Also check some of the descriptions that the homebrew stores are using to describe Amarillo hops A super cascade with high AAU's. Just made a Pale ale with Amarillo as flavor and aroma hops (Yakima Magnum for bittering). The next IPA I brew will include Amarillo Leaf Hops dryhopping in the second fermenter.

Good luck and let us know how it tastes.
 

gERgMan

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ColoradoXJ13 said:
I don't seem to get a whole lot from dry hopping with amarillo...maybe its just me.
Hard to say if this might be true for me. I had dry-hopped with two other hops, so I can't distinguish between all three given they are sorta similar. Were you using pellets or leaf hops for your dry hopping?
 

ColoradoXJ13

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I used leaf hops, I am planning on using pellets for dry hopping from now on, I have dry hopped three beers now, the one with pellets picked up the most aroma.
 

GerryL

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Just a follow-up on this pale ale with cascade hops. We both have been enjoying it quite a bit. (it's been disappearing pretty quick too) We will brew another batch for summer, and we'll drop the addition of 2oz of fresh cascade from 10min down to 5 min to see how that works out; at 10 min it had a strong grapfruit taste, more than some would like probably. But I do think it came out very close to the one we had in FL. Since then we've done a hefe, blueberry wheat, and we started a porter Sunday. Wow, what a fermentation on this one! We had to go to a blow off tube yesterday.
-Gerry



LouT said:
Sounds nice. I had a similar experience, at the Porsmouth Brewery - I think it was their Cream Ale - wife loved it as well as I did, which is very unusual. Would love to know how close you came to that grapefruit flavor. Welcome back to homebrewing, too, by the way!!
 
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LouT

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Nice! You've all been pretty busy!
Any chance you could post up the northern brewer recipe, as brewed, GerryL?
 

Grimsawyer

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SWMBO loves Widmere 07. It is super grapefruity. it uses Alchemy, chinook and sumit hops. Very tasty beer, one i'm going to try and copy.:rockin: ANYTHING to get the SWMBO into beer!!! After reading this whole thread the 2 hops that keep getting mentioned are chinook and cascade. Simcoe comes up alot too. what about a combination of those 3 hops, how grapefruity would that make a beer?
 
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LouT

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Yup, I hear cascade, chinook, amarillo, and sometimes even hear centennial and simcoe. I bet a lot has to do with the specific batch of hops as much as the variety of hops, probably also has a lot to do with the timing of hop additions. Any "pro" types that can help with this discussion???
 

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I'm not a pro- but when I have centennial, I taste "flowers". Not citrusy at all. My Lil bastard has lots of centennial, and although it has mellowed- I still taste flowers. It's too floral to be considered citrusy.

My .02 worth.
 

cool brew

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My turn! This grapefruit thing sounds like a great idea. I am gonna brew one over the weekend. What do you guys think about mixing some Crystal hops with Cascades. Good idea, or very bad idea?
 
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LouT

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I've never had Crystal hops.
I should be tasting/kegging my chinook/cascade beer this weekend, will post initial impressions.
Next batch I might go with a blonder color ale with maybe 25% wheat, and safale 56 (or whatever it is now), and try a 3 hop blend of chinook, cascade, and amarillo. Up in the air.
Did cascade and saaz give a grapefruity pleasant taste, Bill?
 

cool brew

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LouT, I see you are looking at doing an ESB. Mine came out VERY well using goldings and fuggles. Are you doing a grapefruit ESB. That is not a bad idea at all. Replace the goldings with some Cascades and I think you have a good pair of hops for an ESB.
 
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LouT

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cool brew said:
LouT, I see you are looking at doing an ESB. Mine came out VERY well using goldings and fuggles. Are you doing a grapefruit ESB. That is not a bad idea at all. Replace the goldings with some Cascades and I think you have a good pair of hops for an ESB.
Yup, americanized ESB might be the trick, your second suggestion. Do you have a decent extract w/grains recipe maybe I can do my own hop substitution?
 
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