Chilling wort with ice?

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rockdemon

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I used to put my pot in a icebath to cool it down. But this technoque took forever and i got alot of chill haze. I got this idea to add ice to the hot wort aswell as the bath. It was extremely efficient. It took like 1 hour to cool the wort instead of like 5. The beer got crystal clear and no haze whatsoever but it had this harsh smell and flavor that i couldnt understand. I mde two more batches this way and they also had the same overpowering off flavor. Ive used different ingredients in the three beers although theyve been based on pilsnermalt and sugar(belgian style).
I found some reading about hot wort oxidation and that adding ice or cold water directly to hot wort would give this problem.
I cant really explain the smell/taste but its harsh and maybe something like old vegetables or fruit. Maybe old applejuice perhaps. The beers have also been fermented at high temperature(26-30C) and the flavor and smell is there before bottling.

When smelling the airlock its been like this:
Day 1-2 nice hops smell
Day 3-4 nice yeast smell
Day 5 and onward its a very unpleasant smell in the airlock. Almost like sulphur.

Edit: i make 12 L batches(post boil)and then afd 3 liters of preboiled ice to get 15 liters.
 

Mexibilly

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5 hours to chill?
I'm a novice, but on each 5 gallon batch so far I've put my kettle in a old steel washtub with a few bags of ice around it then stirred gently with a sanitized paddle. I've gotten to pitching temp in 25 - 30 minutes or so I'd guess.
 

aprichman

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I agree with Mexibilly my cooling times take around an hour to hit 65F (~18C) using a similar method and ~20lbs ice.

Also you are fermenting way too hot. You need to keep everything under 22C but 20C is what you should aim for.
 

adamdillabo

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With it being so cold I put mine in a tub with cold water. Swirl the water. You will notice a big difference between the water closest to the pot and the rest. Change the water after a half hour. Repeat. 1.5 hours later it's cold.
 

scottballz

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If you're getting a sulfur smell it means your yeast is being strained usually. Meaning you dont have enough yeast cells. you might want to try making yeast starters depending on your OG. that being said, you are fermenting WAYYYYYY too high!!! Most ale yeast like to have an ambient air temp of around 65 F. If you are using belgian Pils malt as your base you might also want to consider doing a 90 min boil to burn off any DMS which might be the cause of that vegetable flavor you are mentioning.
 

PatrickLS83

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I haven't heard of any issue regarding hot wort oxidation, in fact you want to introduce new oxygen to the wort because it's good for the yeast and the boiling process drives a lot of oxygen out of the wort. It's common for people to inject O2 into their wort from an O2 bottle or even one of those fish tank bubblers. The sulfur smell is a by product of the yeast and in the case of lagers it's very common but for an ale yeast it could mean a stressed fermentation. Either way the yeast should be able to clean those off flavors out naturally, with enough time. If you haven't yet I would do a quick search for optimal temp range for your yeast and try to maintain that, or try finding an ale yeast that works well with whatever temps you do have (you know, within reason).
 

Calder

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Some yeasts give off sulphur smell. I'm not sure what causes it. I get it a lot with cider fermentations.

My guess is high fermentation temp is your main problem, and what you are tasting are yeast by-products resulting from the high ferment temps.
 

Psylocide

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. The beers have also been fermented at high temperature(26-30C) and the flavor and smell is there before bottling.
You're fermenting way too hot... what temp do you pitch at?
 
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rockdemon

rockdemon

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5 hours to chill?
I'm a novice, but on each 5 gallon batch so far I've put my kettle in a old steel washtub with a few bags of ice around it then stirred gently with a sanitized paddle. I've gotten to pitching temp in 25 - 30 minutes or so I'd guess.
Really? i guess i need to stirr it more and try again...
I agree with Mexibilly my cooling times take around an hour to hit 65F (~18C) using a similar method and ~20lbs ice.

Also you are fermenting way too hot. You need to keep everything under 22C but 20C is what you should aim for.
Often in the belgian recipes(i only do belgian beerstyles) you want to keep it at much higher fermentation temps. often pitch at 18C and then let it self rise to 26-28 degrees and keep it there for a week. Sometimes higher (saison yeast) and sometimes lower.

If you're getting a sulfur smell it means your yeast is being strained usually. Meaning you dont have enough yeast cells. you might want to try making yeast starters depending on your OG. that being said, you are fermenting WAYYYYYY too high!!! Most ale yeast like to have an ambient air temp of around 65 F. If you are using belgian Pils malt as your base you might also want to consider doing a 90 min boil to burn off any DMS which might be the cause of that vegetable flavor you are mentioning.
This is another thing that i cant work out. Often belgian brewers underpitch ALOT to get the beer that they want. They aerate alot and then get alot of growth. Ive heard that some belgian brewers pitch 0.25....

My first brews i overpitched resulting in very high attenuation but not much taste from the yeast, hardly any esters and stuff like that so ive been experimenting with underpitching now, 0.75 and 0.65. The last brew that smelled sulphur was 0.65. I guess ill go back to 1.0...

About the temp it depends on style and strain i would say. For ex the Saison Dupont strain, alot of people go above 30 degrees C with that yeast to get some of that funky smell to it..

I always do 90 min boils just in case...

You're fermenting way too hot... what temp do you pitch at?
Ive been going with 18C for belgian strains and sometimes I make a pale ale with dry yeast, the us-05 and then i go with 20C and try to keep the fermentation temp below 24C atleast.

If you want your primary to stay around 22C how cold should the room be? I know its hard to say exactly but do you guys think that a 17C room would be good? I dont have that many options but in the basement its 17C. In my apartment i cant get lower that 20C.
Im going to try a westmalle tripel clone and they state that they keep primary at around 22C the first week. (interresting temp considering westvleteren uses the same yeast and they ferment at 28C or something like that)
 

HB_in_Subic

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Here is the cooling method for my Saison using Mangrove Jack's M27 Belgian Saison Ale (temp range 79F-90F);

Proof my yeast at room temperature in cooled down pre-boiled tap water with a couple spoonfuls of Corn Sugar after it has cooled down to 84F
Wort chill with tap water to 90F plus 1.5L of frozen bottled water as part of my top off, then ice bath to 80F (typically my ambient temperature)
Pour the wort into the fermenter and aerate (I pour from my kettle spigot and get a huge amount of froth on the top)
Pitch the yeast, seal the lid and put in the airlock.

I typically get airlock activity within 12 hours.

You are using US-05 which is not a belgian ale yeast. US-05 is noted for not adding flavors. If you need to use a dry belgian yeast, look at Mangrove Jack's, Belle Danstar Belgian and look at higher fermenting temps. Mangrove Jack's will leave fruity notes if brewed at the higher temperature range or clove notes at lower temps.

On temperature control, plan on the temperature inside the fermenter to be at least 5F above the ambient temperature where it is stored. Get a thermometer strip and attach to the fermenter to get a better idea of actual temperature inside the fermenter.

Get your boils down to 60 minutes. No need for 90 minutes.

I have made 5 batches so far with consistent results making it like the above. I add 1.13lbs of Corn Sugar to my Saison to get the ABV of 6% for 23L batches.
 

russell58

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When you add ice to your batch do you boil it then freeze. I have tried that and it work pretty well for helping in dropping the temperature down in a faster way. I boil the water a day or two earlier and put in a covered and sanitize water pitcher in freezer. On brew day I take the pitcher out so that it can thaw just enough that it is easy to slide out of the pitcher. I just brewed a Belgian Wit that turned out pretty good I would suggest you try WLP400 for your next Wit.

Cheers :mug:
 
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rockdemon

rockdemon

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When you add ice to your batch do you boil it then freeze. I have tried that and it work pretty well for helping in dropping the temperature down in a faster way. I boil the water a day or two earlier and put in a covered and sanitize water pitcher in freezer. On brew day I take the pitcher out so that it can thaw just enough that it is easy to slide out of the pitcher. I just brewed a Belgian Wit that turned out pretty good I would suggest you try WLP400 for your next Wit.

Cheers :mug:
Yeah i boil water and freeze it in three small plastic containers (1 liters each). I havent tried any wheat beer yet. I can make a decent pale ale and some people like my dubbel/quadrupels. Im still working on getting a good belgian tripel/blonde. Made maybe 20 attempts but cant get it even close to what i want...
 

russell58

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Yeah i boil water and freeze it in three small plastic containers (1 liters each). I havent tried any wheat beer yet. I can make a decent pale ale and some people like my dubbel/quadrupels. Im still working on getting a good belgian tripel/blonde. Made maybe 20 attempts but cant get it even close to what i want...
Did some research on yeast strain for Belgian Ales. I have included a link to an article about high temperature yeast. Hope this is helpful in getting your brews to where you want them to end up. http://beerandwinejournal.com/high-temp-yeast/
I will have to add a Belgian Ale to my list of beers to brew.

Cheers
 
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