Chilling Wort Recommendations

[BadMedicine]

I am new to Electric brewing. I have a Spike Solo but I only have the 20 gallon kettle and basket. Everything else such as pump and controller were purchased from somewhere else. I am used to using an immersion chiller to cool my wort when using gas however I just recently moved to Southern Texas and the ground water is fairly warm. I have read/heard that you cannot use an IC on electric systems because of the contact with the heat element. How would I be able to chill the wort effectively? What are some tips and tricks or ways you chill your wort with warm ground water?

Also if there is another thread that has addressed this issue please let me know. I could not find one that answered my question when I searched for it.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Use something, for example, the HLT, as a prechiller feeding into the chiller. Put ice and water into the HLT and pump thru the chiller.

From boiling to chilled within minutes. Have the wort move thru slightly slower than the chilled/cold water.

 

[BadMedicine]

Use something, for example, the HLT, as a prechiller feeding into the chiller. Put ice and water into the HLT and pump thru the chiller.

View attachment 713496

From boiling to chilled within minutes. Have the wort move thru slightly slower than the chilled/cold water.

Thank you for the idea!

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Whomever invented the counterflow wort chiller, IMO, was an absolute genius.

Although, AC works in the same principle.

 

[ATLBeer]

Using the integrated pump in my Robobrew, I send my wort through the IC, which is sitting in 20lbs of ice.

Takes 15 minutes for a 5 gallon batch, but would be faster with a better pump I'm sure.

Less water used and I have a freezer that makes ice crazy fast all week between brews.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

Immersion chillers really were not made to pass wort thru them. They are made to pass cold/chilled water thru the tubes while the coils sit in the hot wort.

 

[ATLBeer]

So what’s the risk?

 

[RufusBrewer]

Look up on Amazon for bilge pumps. You can put the pump in a bucket of ice water and pump ice water directly through your IM.

Some people start off with using the available tap water to get from boiling down to as far as the tap temp can get you. Then switch and pump the ice water to get to pitching temps. Depends on where and how you get your ice and how much it costs you.

If you are protect your element form the IM banging into it, checkout brewhardware's solution.
https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/biabbottom13.htm

 

[McKnuckle]

I have read/heard that you cannot use an IC on electric systems because of the contact with the heat element.

That's nonsense. You just have to be common-sense careful, and not smash into it or something. I've used an IC with electric elements many, many times. There are other ways to chill, but an IC is as convenient as it gets and very easy to clean.

 

[ATLBeer]

Look up on Amazon for bilge pumps. You can put the pump in a bucket of ice water and pump ice water directly through your IM.

That was my original plan. I bought the equipment used and the pump was the only part I didn't test before I brewed this batch. I had to think fast and thought this was a great solution, I've used it ever since.

Other than the difference in cleaning, are there any downsides to it?

Side question since I don't remember my physics class:
Since this approach places the wort/coil in contact with the ice, wouldn't it be more efficient that pumping the melted water through the wort? The phase change to ice takes about 80 calories per gram. If the coil is in contact with the ice, it is using this energy. Pumping water through the coil only gets you 1 calorie /gm.
I know it's all the same amount of energy by the end, but seems like this would release the energy faster.

 

[RufusBrewer]

I find the bilge pumps make it easy to push ice water through my IM. My ground water is high enough, I feel as I "need to do something."

I will be honest, I do not follow you side question.

Bottom line: The greatest variable when it comes to chilling your wort is the difference between the chilling fluid and the wort. The greater the difference, the steeper the chilling rate. The second factor is the rate you pump water through the chiller. The more water, the quicker the chill. More gallons per water = quicker chill.

Now comes some practical considerations. What is your source for ice? It takes energy and equipment resources to make ice. If you live in an area where snow is plentiful, it is a no brainer. Dig up a bunch of snow and make gallons and gallons of ice water and pump it through your chiller as fast as you can.

Otherwise you have to make some choices and balance resources and variables against how fast you need/want your wort to cool. E.g. Some people feel guilty about using "too much" water. They look for ways to minimize total water consumed.

 

[flyfishorbrew]

I used an immersion chiller with my electric system for quite awhile and never had a problem, besides the cluster**** caused in the kettle between the heating element, the IC, and the hop spider. It really is the simplest solution and as others have mentioned you have the ability to pump ice water through it (the other option if you don't have a pump is to have two IC's and use one as a "pre-chiller" in a bucket of ice water prior to running to your kettle).

FWIW I've been going back and forth between my IC and a plate chiller for awhile now and I think I'm leaning towards the plate chiller, but only since getting a new system (Clawhammer). It's much easier now with this system to put the chiller inline than when I was attaching it to the spigot, and then it's very easy to clean in place after use which is a must with a plate chiller. I do find that I use less water and get all the way down to ground water temp in about 15 minutes max by recirculating back into the kettle and I don't have to stir or constantly move the IC. If I need to cool it further at that point I put it into the fermentation chamber, but again I could get below ground water temp if I cooled it to groundwater and then used my IC as a pre-chiller in an ice bath.

 

[ATLBeer]

Rufus, think of it this way.
You have two pots of hot wort.
The first one you sit on a block of ice. (simulates wort running through the ice)
The second you sit in a very large bath of 33 degree water. (simulates ice water in the wort)
Which one cools to 80 faster? The one sitting on ice.
This is because the energy to convert ice to water is 80 times the energy to raise water 1 degree, and if you apply that directly to the wort, it should cool faster. Well that's my theory anyway.

For me, this is a good setup. My goal with the all in one was to minimize equipment and cleaning, so the integrated pump now is dual use.
My spare fridge makes over 20 lbs. of ice between brews and I doubt the marginal electricity even shows up on my bill. I also don't like to run water because of the logistics of the hoses/draining and a history of messing up the kitchen.

Of course if I ever go multi-vessel or need pumps for another purpose, I'd rethink this.

 

[RufusBrewer]

I do not know about all that. Maybe an engineer or scientist can help us out here.

I know in my 16 years of home brewing, if there was a method that chilled wort 80 times faster, I would have heard about.

In the back of my mind I recall there is something different about going from 32* to 33* compared going from 33* to 34*. Same 1* delta but different. But how does that apply to 212* wort?

 

[eric19312]

I used an immersion chiller with my electric system for quite awhile and never had a problem, besides the cluster**** caused in the kettle between the heating element, the IC, and the hop spider. It really is the simplest solution and as others have mentioned you have the ability to pump ice water through it (the other option if you don't have a pump is to have two IC's and use one as a "pre-chiller" in a bucket of ice water prior to running to your kettle).

FWIW I've been going back and forth between my IC and a plate chiller for awhile now and I think I'm leaning towards the plate chiller, but only since getting a new system (Clawhammer). It's much easier now with this system to put the chiller inline than when I was attaching it to the spigot, and then it's very easy to clean in place after use which is a must with a plate chiller. I do find that I use less water and get all the way down to ground water temp in about 15 minutes max by recirculating back into the kettle and I don't have to stir or constantly move the IC. If I need to cool it further at that point I put it into the fermentation chamber, but again I could get below ground water temp if I cooled it to groundwater and then used my IC as a pre-chiller in an ice bath.

Between IC and plate chiller the other choice is counterflow. Not much harder to clean than the IC offers chilling performance similar to plate chiller. Don't have to worry about hops getting into counterflow either. I do recirc from counterflow back into kettle to get to my whirlpool hopstand temperature but once whirlpool is done I go single pass into my fermentor.

 

[flyfishorbrew]

Between IC and plate chiller the other choice is counterflow. Not much harder to clean than the IC offers chilling performance similar to plate chiller. Don't have to worry about hops getting into counterflow either. I do recirc from counterflow back into kettle to get to my whirlpool hopstand temperature but once whirlpool is done I go single pass into my fermentor.

If I hadn't already spent so much money first on an IC and then on a plate chiller, I'd go this route too. Oh well.

 

[eric19312]

If I hadn't already spent so much money first on an IC and then on a plate chiller, I'd go this route too. Oh well.

sell em!

 

[chipmunk]

Bottom line: The greatest variable when it comes to chilling your wort is the difference between the chilling fluid and the wort. The greater the difference, the steeper the chilling rate. The second factor is the rate you pump water through the chiller. The more water, the quicker the chill. More gallons per water = quicker chill.

Just to elaborate on this - the heat transfer depends primarily on
1. the area of heat exchange (I.e., bigger coils or more plates improves performance)
2. the temperature difference between the fluids and
3. the heat transfer coefficient - which depends on a number of factors like fluid density, physical design of the heat exchanger, and fluid turbulence at the exchange surfaces.
Sometimes you will get very little improvement in heat exchange by increasing, say, the velocity of cold water, through an IC if your chiller is sitting still in your wort for example. Most of the thermal “resistance” is in the “boundary layer” of wort touching your outer surface of your IC. In this case, agitate the wort or move the chiller through the wort - the more agitation, the better the heat exchange.

Since this approach places the wort/coil in contact with the ice, wouldn't it be more efficient that pumping the melted water through the wort? The phase change to ice takes about 80 calories per gram. If the coil is in contact with the ice, it is using this energy. Pumping water through the coil only gets you 1 calorie /gm.
I know it's all the same amount of energy by the end, but seems like this would release the energy faster.

I don’t think a IC immersed in ice would initially be faster than a bucket of 32dF, although it could be faster overall. The ice would melt at the exchange surface, likely resulting in similar heat transfer characteristics. Possibly lower initially due to air gaps in the ice. However, the melting ice provides lots of cooling capacity through the phase change to prevent the water from heating up. Probably best practice to: immerse in water, with ice thrown in as needed to maintain cold temps. And have a high velocity recirc pump in your ice bath (or manually stir and/or agitate the crap out of the water) to improve heat exchange.

 

[BadMedicine]

My only concern with an IC was the fact it would sit on the element itself. I was worried that as soon as I pumped ice water through the IC it may cause damage to the element with it cooling so fast or having contact with cold temps right after being so hot. I honestly do not know how sensitive these elements are. The only knowledge I have about elements is that you should never turn them on without liquid covering it or else it could burn out.

 

[mschoeffler]

After struggling with a Helles using prechilled IC (bucket of ice slurry) upstream to a plate chiller, has anyone used rock salt to lower the prechiller temperature?

 

[Grizwold1]

Using the immersion chiller included with the Anvil I have a small aquarium pump in the 15 gal cooler I used to use as a mash tun. 2 bags of ice and some cold water to begin. Catch the first couple gallons of hot water for cleaning, then circulate back into the cooler. Another 2-3 bags of ice gets me down to c. 70* in 15 minutes. I get the ice at the Dollar Store for an outlay of 5 bucks. Could make my own ice, but I'm lazy.

 

[Gilbert Spinning Horse]

My tap water is pretty warm too. My method is to lower the temp from boiling down to 60C using my IC, which is quick enough. Then I add my whirlpool hops and let it sit for an hour or two, which drops it to about 45-50C. Running it off into the fermenter drops it a bit more down to about 40C, then I let it sit for a few hours, sealed with a two way air lock, till it gets to pitching temp.