Chill Haze, for realz

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drummstikk

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I'd like to have a serious conversation about chill haze and how to remove it.

By chill haze, I mean that I have a crystal clear beer at room temp, and a turbid beer at refrigerated temps. All my beers give the same result, and I use standard Weyermann, Rahr, Briess, Simpsons malts and White Labs yeasts.

What I'm already doing: rolling 90 min boil, whirlfloc 5 min before flameout, immersion chilling with agitation, crash cooling after fermentation, fining with gelatin, 1/2 tsp / 5 gal, heated but not boiled to dissolve.

What sort of works: lagering for > 2 weeks. Reduces chill haze to be sure, but beer is still not clear.

What does not work at all: crash cooling followed by 1 um filtration. Many report this works, but I've noticed an adamant minority of posters reporting the same result I got. And, it makes perfect sense: chill haze particles are reported to range from .1 - 1 um. They're too small for this filter size!

What I haven't tried: PVPP or silica gel or bentonite. People report that polyclar will bind to tannins, eliminating chill haze, but is this actually true?



Let's have a real discussion about chill haze, where everyone is on the same page about temperatures and times. Let's not have the typical convo, which goes something like this

  • 5 or 6 posts: Solve the problem in the kettle, you clearly aren't getting a good cold break
  • 3 or 4 posts: Chill and filter, works for me even though I'm just using a 7 um filter, I get "diamond" clear beer
  • 1 lone dissenter: 1 um filtration cannot and does not remove chill haze
  • 3 or 4 more posts: I'm going to just go ahead and pretend that naysayer never posted -- filtration works for me!
  • everyone else: Dude, clear beer is only a light switch away.


Specifically, the "Chill and filter" crowd and the "filtering can't reduce chill haze" crowd need to look deeply into each other's eyes and reconcile their findings. How can both results possibly be true?

Finally, cold conditioners and PVPP users -- do these methods actually give brilliant beer at fridge temps? Please post photos so others can know what you mean by "clear", and also so we can get some nice clear beer porn.

Thanks in advance!
 
Chill haze is caused by proteins and tannins that are left in the beer. There are a few ways to attack chill haze.

1. Chill the beer down to 30-32F to precipitate all the haze causing proteins and tannins, then filter. This will work. If your beer still isn't crystal clear after this, then there are other forces at work causing haze that need to be investigated separately.

2. Do a protein rest during your mash, between about 115 F and 135F for about 15 minutes. This will break down a lot of the haze causing proteins and they will no longer cause a problem in the finished beer.

3. "Chill Proof" the beer by chilling it down to 30-32F, and leave it undisturbed for many weeks. This will precipitate the haze causing proteins and tannins, and eventually gravity will drop them out of solution. You can rack off the clear beer into your serving vessel.

4. Use finings such as gelatin. They will bind to tannins, protein, and yeast in suspension and help drop them out.

The important thing to remember is that there are other things that cause haze in beer, especially in home-brew. If the things listed above don't work, then it's time to turn focus to other parts of your process, like the vigor of your boil and the speed of your cooling, the yeast strain you're using and how you're dropping it out of the beer at the end of fermentation, your sparging method, etc etc...

Unfortunately everyone's homebrew process is a little different. There is usually no magic-bullet for problems like this, it's typically the result of the entirety of your process, not just one step like filtration or fining. I'd go through your process step by step, evaluate how each step effects the protein and tannin levels in your beer, and think about how you can adjust each step for maximum result.


EDIT: I don't have any photos to post of my beers right now, but I consistently have brilliantly clear beer using only whirlfloc and course filtration (post fermentation). They look like commercial beers, not like a "pretty clear homebrew". I attribute to using great quality ingredients, sound process during the mash and boil and careful attention to fermentation, not any special chill reducing technique.
 
There are so many variables here that no single simple answer can be given and you would do well to consider the experiences of anyone and everyone who offers data. For example 1 u filtration will work for those whose protein globs are bigger than 1 u but it won't work for smaller globules. Standing cold will work for larger globules but as with the filtering not for smaller (I've had beer with tiny globules that was quite hazy after more than a year - the globs were very small).

One factor that has not been mentioned is pH. pH controls the charge on molecules and the charge is a major factor in the formation of clumps. This applies to yeast and haze. To my great surprise when I got religion WRT controlling pH an unanticipated benefit was that the beer cleared faster.

In my experience (I get brilliant beer without filtration) the only way to get chill haze is to omit the protein rest with Maris Otter malt.
 
Strat, I appreciate your post and your time, brother. I want to go through it in detail, in the interest of getting to a solution.

1. Chill the beer down to 30-32F to precipitate all the haze causing proteins and tannins, then filter. This will work.

Unfortunately, filtration (1 um nominal cartridge, near-freezing beer) does not work for me, and for many others.

2. Do a protein rest during your mash, between about 115 F and 135F for about 15 minutes. This will break down a lot of the haze causing proteins and they will no longer cause a problem in the finished beer.

Great, I'll try this! I've just been reluctant in the past because I've been told a protein rest is a zero-sum game between clarity and head retention. Do people who use a protein rest to get chill-proof beer also get good foam?

3. "Chill Proof" the beer by chilling it down to 30-32F, and leave it undisturbed for many weeks.

Standing cold will work for larger globules but as with the filtering not for smaller (I've had beer with tiny globules that was quite hazy after more than a year - the globs were very small).

Though I haven't cold conditioned for one year, I do cold condition for 3-6 weeks, and I get the same result as adjelange -- some chill haze particles are small enough that their own electrostatic repulsion of each other is strong enough to keep them in permanent suspension.

4. Use finings such as gelatin. They will bind to tannins, protein, and yeast in suspension and help drop them out.

Unfortunately, gelatin doesn't affect my chill hazes. You really wouldn't expect it to work, either, based on what we know about how fining works. I'll add a follow-up post to go more in depth.

If the things listed above don't work, then it's time to turn focus to other parts of your process, like the vigor of your boil and the speed of your cooling

I do a rolling boil, use whirlfloc, and I use an immersion chiller with agitation (see the OP, brother). I can't exclude it completely, but I'm confident the solution isn't on the hot side.

EDIT: I don't have any photos to post of my beers right now, but I consistently have brilliantly clear beer using only whirlfloc and course filtration (post fermentation). They look like commercial beers, not like a "pretty clear homebrew"

Great! At what temperatures are your beers commercial clear? If I pour one of my beers from the tap and let it sit, it transitions from "London fog" to "commercial clear" in about 20 minutes. Are your beers clear all the way down to 32F?
 
Great! At what temperatures are your beers commercial clear? If I pour one of my beers from the tap and let it sit, it transitions from "London fog" to "commercial clear" in about 20 minutes. Are your beers clear all the way down to 32F?

Mine are clear at 37 degrees, as I don't think I've ever had one at 32 degrees. Although, come to think of it, I have lagered at 34 degrees. My kegerator is at 39 degrees, and the beer is crystal clear coming out of it.
 
Ok, I just wanted to go more in depth about fining. I link to some papers here that are behind paywalls -- my apologies, and corporate journals suck!

Gelatin, or any protein, will have a charge that depends on the pH of the solution it's in. When a solution is more acidic, there are more protons present, and the excess protons are donated to the acidic amino acids residues in proteins (glutamate, aspartate) neutralizing their negative charge, and to the basic amino acids (histidine, argenine, lysine), giving them a positive charge. So as pH drops, proteins become more positively-charged.

The pH at which a protein switches from a net negative charge to a net positive charge is the isoelectric point. Gelatin has an isoelectric point of pH 5. So below pH 5 (all fermented beer is below pH 5) gelatin has a positive charge.

The surface of a yeast has an isoelectric point of about pH 4. Even though a yeast is a complex thing, it has an isoelectric point just like a purified protein does. So between pH 4 and pH 5 (beer range), gelatin will be positive, yeast will be negative, and together they will form big aggregates with more or less neutral charge that can fall out of suspension.

Now, what about chill haze? As strat pointed out, chill haze particles are associations between proteins and tannins. The main gluten proteins of barley are a class of proteins called hordeins, and hordeins typically have isoelectric points above pH 6.5! So, hordeins will have a net positive charge at beer pH (4-5), and will actually be repelled by gelatin. So gelatin definitely cannot pull down the protein component of chill haze.

Tannins are big polar molecules. Along with lignins, tannins constitute the bulk of the non-protein and non-carbohydrate components of plant tissue, called polyphenols. They don't have any functional groups that can lose or gain protons. As a result, polyphenols maintain a neutral charge at beer pH, and you wouldn't expect tannins to interact with gelatin, at least not through electrostatics. (positive + neutral = no interaction)

So based on charge interaction, you wouldn't expect gelatin to affect chill haze in any way, and in fact, this is what I find! Fining with gelatin knocks down any residual haze I have at room temp, but when I chill my beer and fine with gelatin, I see no change in the haze.

I haven't tried PVPP, which is supposed to associate with polyphenols. I have been reluctant about adversely affecting my flavor and color. Does anyone have experience with PVPP, and do you notice any significant negative change in beer quality?
 
My kegerator is at 39 degrees, and the beer is crystal clear coming out of it.

Thanks Yooper, you've inspired me to try to find out exactly what temp my beers make the transition to crystal clear. Glass of cloudy beer with thermometer sitting at my side right now. Must not drink...
 
One thing I've noticed about my chill haze is it's variable, some batches have it more than others. I also can stick a beer in the freezer and serve it ice cold and it's haze free, but 2 days in the fridge and it's murky.
 
Mine are clear at 37 degrees

My chill haze persisted until about 62F! It took much longer than my estimate of 20 minutes.

Colin Kaminsky recommended that fining with gelatin at room temp can actually make a chill haze worse! I'm a little confused now because this contradicts my rant about how gelatin won't interact with chill haze constituents...

Here's the plan for now -- try fining with gelatin again now that the beer is chilled -- see if that does anything.

Get some PVPP and silica gel.
 
Great! At what temperatures are your beers commercial clear? If I pour one of my beers from the tap and let it sit, it transitions from "London fog" to "commercial clear" in about 20 minutes. Are your beers clear all the way down to 32F?

I serve at 36, and they're totally clear at that temperature.

Try doing the protein rest next time. As long as you don't leave it at that temp for more than 30 minutes, you won't lose much head retention.
 
Unfortunately, filtration (1 um nominal cartridge, near-freezing beer) does not work for me, and for many others.

Try a different filtration method. I use the octagon shaped plate filters that are designed for wine with the "course" filter pads. The beer comes out looking really, really nice, every time.
 
Try doing the protein rest next time. As long as you don't leave it at that temp for more than 30 minutes, you won't lose much head retention.

That is really good to hear. I'll give a protein rest a shot.

Regarding the plate filters -- how long do you cold condition your beer before using them? Long enough that chill haze particles might be sedimenting and forming larger aggregates that get filtered out? Or do you filter a day or two after chilling?
 
Regarding the plate filters -- how long do you cold condition your beer before using them? Long enough that chill haze particles might be sedimenting and forming larger aggregates that get filtered out? Or do you filter a day or two after chilling?

I have done both with great results. The last batch I filtered was served at a friend's wedding reception this weekend. It was a red ale and looked brilliantly clear in the glass. I brewed it three weeks ago, fermented it for 10 days, dry hopped it for 4 days, cold crashed it overnight at 32F, filtered and kegged it the next day and served it the following saturday.

I have also cold conditioned lagers for 6-8 weeks prior to filtration.

They always come out perfectly crystal clear after filtration, no matter how cold they are. I wonder if there is an inherent process flaw with the cartridge type filter that you're using. I would try using a plate filter which is specifically designed for beer and wine and see if that works. If not, at least you will have eliminated one more variable.
 
Great, I'll try this! I've just been reluctant in the past because I've been told a protein rest is a zero-sum game between clarity and head retention. Do people who use a protein rest to get chill-proof beer also get good foam?

Do this, especially with pilsner malts. I do protein rests to IMPROVE my beer's body and head retention. I do use a lot of pilsner malt, and am seriously considering not buying pale malt anymore.

Don't buy into the hype that a protein rest will give you a thin insipid beer. Sure, go too long, and that is what you will get. My feeling is that the protein conversion level in malts have been optimized for preventing chill haze, but not necessarily body and head retention. Think of all the traditional beers one can brew with pilsner malt from the crisp pilsner to the rich doppelbock. Is it really conceivable that the pils malt produced is perfectly suited for both those style? We'll yes it is, IF you treat it properly, with each beer style requiring it's own tweaks to the mash schedule to get out of the malt what you want.

I believe this even more after talking to one of the brewmasters at Pilsner Urquell as he was showing us the malting room. We were asking questions and asked about protein rests (with respect to pilsner malt). He said he would absolutely do a protein rest with a commercial pilsner malt. He said the commercial maltsters are making a malt that has to be compatible with the large number of different breweries and their unique processes. Therefore the malt they produce is a compromise so it will work well with range of different mashing processes. On the other hand, since Pilsner Uquell makes their own malt to their exact standard to fit their process, they can skip the protein rest.
 
I'd take a look at pH. I used to get mad chill haze in my lighter brews, even though I was using kettle finings, cooling rapidly, etc. Ever since I have started calculating/measuring pH, mixing with RO and using acidulated malt to keep the beers around 4.4.-4.5 @ room temperature, even my lighter beers that use CMC pale malt have been clear without a protein rest.
 
In my experience (I get brilliant beer without filtration) the only way to get chill haze is to omit the protein rest with Maris Otter malt.

Am I reading this correctly? You get chill haze with Maris Otter if you do not do a protein rest?
 
keep the beers around 4.4.-4.5 @ room temperature

Jfr, that's a post-fermentation pH, right?

Do you adjust pH during/after the boil? I adjust to pH 5.3 after doughing in my mash with salts and lactic acid, and I usually don't check it after that.

As an update, I fined with gelatin again after chilling. It did reduce haze to some degree, so I'll go ahead and put my foot firmly in my mouth.

But the beer is not clear, not even close. Will try PVPP next.

Question for those of you who use 7 um pads with the hexagonal plate filter -- is that a 7 um absolute or nominal rating?
 
I have used Polyclar before about a year ago on a IIPA with a persistent and harsh polyphenol haze that I wanted to drop. I mixed up the powder and dropped into the carbed keg at around 37-39F. I went back to it a week later and it was crystal clear and far less harsh.

I wouldn't have called this a "chill haze", but it does prove that the polyclar will drop a polyphenol haze fairly well.
 
Am I reading this correctly? You get chill haze with Maris Otter if you do not do a protein rest?

You are reading that right. It only happened to me twice and it was with MO both times. You shouldn't conclude from this that it will happen to you if you skip the protein rest - different maltster, different season etc. and you might get away with it. But you might not. Because of this experience and in spite of the widely broadcast assurances that protein rests are not required with modern malts I always do them and not just when using MO.
 
I ran over this in a new book I'm reading in the water chapter.
The interactions between proteins, polyphenols, and hop isoa-acids are influenced by several ions, including Ca, Mg, Fe, and PO. Formation of complexes such as these can lead to improved wort clarification during boiling and improved beer clarification during maturation, leading to enhanced haze stability.
 
I used to have problems with haze until I started kegging. Now, within a couple weeks they are brilliantly clear. It looks clear when I rack to the keg, but you'd be surprised how much more stuff settles out while it cold conditions. There's always a big layer of brown gunk at the bottom of the keg when I go to clean it. Here's a pic of a freshly poured pint.

Picture 018.jpg
 
You could try clarity ferm. My beers are clear-ish without it but they are REALLY clear with it.

I purchased it to test the gluten reduction claims but immediately noticed how clear it made the batches I used it on.
 
Well, after a day of settling after carbonation, I'm happy to report I did get crystal clear beer at 4C. Check it out:

2012-02-03_22-19-22_464.jpg


The grist was 4.25 lbs unmalted 2-row, 5 lbs Munich, dough in for 1 hour at 40C, adjust pH to 5.3, protein rest for 30 min at 50C, mash for 2 hours at 60C, then 15 min at 70C, boil for 90, half tablet whirlfloc at 5 minutes to go, chill with immersion chiller running groundwater, then ferment with Clarity-Ferm, cool to 29F overnight, then fine with 1 tsp gelatin per 5 gal.

Whew. I think it was the Clarity-Ferm followed by gelatin that did the trick. Images were taken 22 days after brewday at 4C.

2012-02-03_22-18-58_974.jpg
 
I just started using gelatin either in the keg or right before transferring to the keg. Makes my beer crystal clear in just a few days.
 
I guess it's immaterial to say that somehow without trying too hard I get crystal clear beers at temps down to low fridge temps. I don't know what temperature exactly. The things I've changed are using Whirlfloc 15 minutes before end of boil, getting a cold break (I pour the wort over ice), letting it sit in the fermenter longer (from 2 weeks to up to 6 weeks), letting it bottle condition longer (sometimes it's a month before I really start drinking stuff). It seems like I don't have any cloudy beers anymore. It's kind of strange, considering how worried I was that I'd never have clear beer.

It will definitely be interesting to watch this thread. I don't know how there can be such different results at relatively the same process. It's fascinating!
 
I don't do many ales (other than Kölsch and Weizen neither of which drop clear) but when I do they drop clear without Whirlfloc or carageenan in any other form as long as I do a protein rest. The reason I don't use Whirlfloc is because, being a lager brewer, I never remember to buy it when getting ready for a brew. I think I remembered once. Nonetheless I do think it is a good idea.
 
I guess it's immaterial to say that somehow without trying too hard I get crystal clear beers at temps down to low fridge temps.

Thanks for reporting the temperature along with the clarity!

BonnieJ, how long do your bottles typically stay in the fridge before you pour them? I have noticed that some bottles I left at my parents house for a year were crystal clear when I poured them, even though I didn't try especially hard to get them clear a year ago when I brewed them. Time in the cold seems to always do the trick!

In my limited time thinking about this topic, I think I'm beginning to get a rough idea for how to get clarity. Let me know if you think this is right. Clear beer can either be:

  1. Warm
  2. Cold conditioned for months
  3. Cleaved with a protease (Clarity-ferm), then fined

If anybody gets clear beer with an option not on this list, please post a short description of all the relevant methods (just report everything if you can) along with a photo of the clear beer and the temperature of the beer in the photo.

I think it would be really interesting to add to the list if we can. For example, I heard from many people that filtering -1C beer with a 1uM filter was going to get my last batch of beer clear, but when I tried this with a 1uM nominal filter, it improved the clarity, but wasn't anywhere near crystal. So, I can't put it on the list. But if somebody else has gotten this to work, post the photo and the temperature and the technique, and let's expand the list!

Plus, by reporting our results, we can get a nice collection of clear beer porn!
 
I used to have problems with haze until I started kegging. Now, within a couple weeks they are brilliantly clear. It looks clear when I rack to the keg, but you'd be surprised how much more stuff settles out while it cold conditions. There's always a big layer of brown gunk at the bottom of the keg when I go to clean it. Here's a pic of a freshly poured pint.

Thanks for the pic! What temperature was the beer at in the photo you posted? That looks like a freshly-poured pint, so the temperature your kegerator is set to would be close enough.

Are you careful not to disturb your kegs once they go into your kegerator? I regularly have my kegs on tap for a month or more, but they never got as clear as the pic you posted. And will your beers get even more clear than the pic if you leave them for longer?
 
I just started using gelatin either in the keg or right before transferring to the keg. Makes my beer crystal clear in just a few days.

Now this is very different from my experience. If I fine warm beer with gelatin, it will clear to crystal clarity. But then I'll get a haze once I chill. If I fine cold beer, then the gelatin makes a big improvement in clarity, but never achieves crystal clarity. Maybe we are doing something differently. I use 1 tsp gelatin in 3-4 oz water per 5 gal -- soak gelatin in cold water for 10 min, heat in microwave with short bursts until gelatin just dissolves -- never boil, dump straight into cold beer and gently stir.

I know the thing to do is a series of fining concentrations to see if your improvements in clarity have plateaued or not...maybe I would try this if the Clarity-ferm hadn't already worked so well.

But just to make sure we're talking about the same thing, would you mind posting a pic of your clear beer along with the temp it's at?
 
One factor that has not been mentioned is pH. pH controls the charge on molecules and the charge is a major factor in the formation of clumps. This applies to yeast and haze. To my great surprise when I got religion WRT controlling pH an unanticipated benefit was that the beer cleared faster.

I know this is old, but what is "religion WRT controlling"? You mentioned PH but not what the PH should be or what PH tends to cause chill haze (higher/lower than normal). Could someone elaborate on this a bit more. Thanks
 
"religious with respect to".

I'm assuming that once he got his pH dialed in (mash and sparge, pH 5.2 - 5.4 typically) that the beers cleared much easier and faster.


I guess kinda along the lines of "do it right in the first place, and it will be better in the long run" Most homebrewers don't have the equipment to keep EVERYTHING ideal like the mega brewers do (pitch rate, O2, temps etc.). As a result byproducts produced during mashing, boiling and fermenting are minimized so their beer matures faster. We must do other stuff to deal with less than perfect brewing conditions. Fortunately, most of the time, what we must do is simply wait longer to allow for the byproducts to clear up, including haze producing materials
 
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