Cheaper hops on the hotside for NEIPA, IPA

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

beervoid

hophead
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Messages
831
Reaction score
141
Location
Europe
Hello forum,

I'm wondering if any people here have experimented with using less expensive hops on the hotside of the brewing process... Chinook, columbus, centennial, cascade etc.. while keeping the expensive pungent hops like Mosaic, Citra, Galaxy etc exclusively for dry hopping.

I know Trillium claims to use Columbus hot side only and the guys at Sapwood cellars seems to have concluded this works very good.

Me myself have had mixed results and I'm not totally convinced we can cheat on the hotside.
My best and most flavorfull beers till this date all had at least some or all pungent hops on the hotside/whirlpool.

Replacing them completely hasnt been satisfactory, replacing them by half worked better.
I haven't had the chance to brew a side by side yet.

Cheers
 

IslandLizard

Progressive Brewing
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
15,341
Reaction score
5,850
Location
Pasadena, MD
I only use Warrior, Magnum, Nugget, Apollo, etc. for bittering. Sometimes Columbus. Then either a small (1-2 oz) flameout addition of 'feature hops' followed by a small boatload (4-6 oz) of 'feature hops' in one or two whirlpool additions at reduced temps (170 => 140F) or forego the flameout and do 2 whirlpool additions only.

Then 2 dry hops, one at 50-60% of the total attenuation point and the 2nd with 10% left.
 

Genuine

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Messages
941
Reaction score
479
Location
Putnam
I'm currently looking into this as I want to brew this style more and see if I can save on the hops. Last one I made use Citra, Mosiac, Centennial and Amarillo as a 170 degree whirlpool for 30 min and it has a great saturated hop flavor. I could buy those in bulk and be able to make multiple batches. I'm super interested in seeing what Comet and Bravo could lend to this style. I like a lot of tropical fruit in this style instead of pine and dankness that you'd get from Chinook. I'll have to try columbus on my next go round with it.
 

IslandLizard

Progressive Brewing
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
15,341
Reaction score
5,850
Location
Pasadena, MD
I had some of Sapwood's NEIPAs at events last year, and they are certainly very hoppy with low bitterness. Not quite the Trillium or Treehouse level of juiciness, but leaning nicely toward them.
 

ong

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 24, 2012
Messages
1,826
Reaction score
540
Location
Portland
Some of the less expensive hops I’ve been using lately for NEIPAs have been Mandarina Bavaria, Azacca, Idaho-7, El Dorado, and Summit, which can all often be found for $5-12 a lb.
 

CascadesBrewer

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
1,009
Reaction score
608
Location
VA, USA
Where does "hotside" end? At least for a NEIPA, the vast majority of the hops tend to be flameout or later.

I am curious what "classic" hops work well in an NEIPA style beer. I just kegged my first NEIPA that is mostly Mosaic and Citra (with a touch of Chinook for bitterness and a dash of Cascade in the boil). I like the hoppy flavors and aromas and less bitterness of NEIPA, though some of the popular hops tend to be too grapefruity or catty for my tastes. I am a big fan of Cascade (I use it a bit too much!) and I like the orange flavors of Amarillo.
 
OP
beervoid

beervoid

hophead
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Messages
831
Reaction score
141
Location
Europe
I did a "biotransformation" experiment with chinook and citra in whirlpool and dry hop. To try get peach out of chinook. Loaded chinook in low temp whirlpool and dry hopped on day 3 with chinook and added citra at tail end.
Came out very chinook grapefruity bitter no juicy flavor to be found.

I'm doubting if trillium really only uses columbus in the kettle like their clone recipes suggests.
Columbus on the hotside only worked better then chinook but I was still missing some citra mosaic in the mix.
Perhaps the columbus lots they pick can be picked for certain juicy aspects.

Also tried a mix of simcoe and columbus, centennial and cascade. These where better but compared to a whirlpool loaded with citra and mosaic I think that would still be my preffered beer allthough the difference was quiet small from memory.
Need a side by side to figure this one out.
 
Last edited:

day_trippr

A bad time to be an empath.
Joined
May 31, 2011
Messages
32,607
Reaction score
13,550
Location
Stow, MA
If anyone has a line on El Dorado for $5-12 a lb please let me know :drunk:

Cheers!
 
OP
beervoid

beervoid

hophead
Joined
Jan 4, 2017
Messages
831
Reaction score
141
Location
Europe

Dgallo

If you ain’t first, you’re last Ricky Bobby
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Messages
3,426
Reaction score
5,293
Location
Albany
Chinook, Summit, bravo, Apollo, comet, Columbus, nugget, cascade. All great hotside for your depth. Also don’t forget that throwing in some of the juicy hops during whirlpool and/or using their Cryo versions (no more than 39-40% of the whirlpool) during this time really helps elevate those dryhop flavors and aromas.
 

couchsending

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 21, 2016
Messages
2,411
Reaction score
1,443
I fully believe that Trillium only uses Columbus hot side on the street beers. When you’re adding huge amounts of dry hops so many of the hot side aromas and flavors get completely covered up. As JC said they compared beers brewed with the “feature” hop added in the whirlpool to ones that just had Columbus in the whirlpool and they didn’t think the difference was worth it. As in it was only mildy detectable.

If you believe biotransformation is a thing and your yeast is even capable of it, hops like Nugget and Bravo contain the highest amounts of Linalool and Geraniol respectively.

Hop lots do differ dramatically and I’m sure there are lots of Columbus that are much more fruit forward versus tire fire/onion that so much of the stuff we as homebrewers get smells like. I know Nugget can be incredibly fruity at times.

At some point I’m going to try a beer that’s all Nugget hot side then dry hopped with a single hop. I add Nugget in small quantities to a lot of my hoppy beers.
 
Last edited:

ong

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 24, 2012
Messages
1,826
Reaction score
540
Location
Portland
2017 crop...
Oh, you’re getting *fancy* now? Haha.

But seriously, I can vouch for the continued deliciousness of well preserved 2017 hops at the current moment. Especially since you’re going to blast through that pound in one or two batches of NEIPA, not let it linger in your fridge for another year.
 

BeerFst

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
304
Reaction score
96
Location
Patchogue
Have you ever tried brewing it with el dorado in the whirlpool? Wonder how they would differ.
Unfortunately no, I’ve done neipa with the same hops in whirlpool and dry hop but no direct comparisons
 
Top