Cheaper CO2 attempts for sodastream

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daft

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I am transitioning to paintball co2 bottles instead of refilling sodastream. Not sure if it will work, because so far it appears they were afraid to fill me with hardly any liquid at all. Anyway I will recount my journey for others to either comment on or learn from my mistakes. We need not use pricey sodastream proprietary syrups (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f95/better-syrup-attempts-sodastream-396003/ ) or co2 refills, even though they have apparently "boobytrapped" their tanks to prevent easy refill.

1) First I tried to play ball with Sodastream. Of course they didn't offer tank exchanges where I bought them, but they did list Walmart and Bed, Bath, and Beyond as sources. Online I could confirm that Walmart had no exchange tanks in stock in any available branch and that they could not be ordered. I eventually checked a branch of BBB that sodastream didn't list and they now offer exchange for $20. Someone on this site said $5 coupons from BBB site are useable, although I haven't seen such coupons even after registering.

2) Someone here mentioned co2doctor.com as a source of paintball adaptor valves, which I ordered. Later I found you can google paintball sodastream and find many vendors for about a $50 device. They give a bunch of advice and offer alternatives like replacement valves to allow easy self refill of sodastream bottles. Some site said the boobytrap can also be overcome just by slow filling (with liquid, not gas c02).

Anyway, the valve is kind of intricate and needs adjustment of a kind of setscrew. In practice runs on an empty bottle and even the first time on a full one, the thing malfunctioned on me and got jammed both going in and backing out. It seems to be very sensitive and you have to stop turning (and back out 1 turn) at the slightest resistance. I think when I overdid it, it slips beside the co2 valve and jams. I don't call it a defect though, and the vendor encourages calls for assistance. I'm just saying it's an unfamiliar world with pitfalls in not knowing how what is tight enough all around.

3) I bought a 20 oz paintball tank for my fizz model sodastream without being sure it would fit internally because I had to use an online credit fast before expiration. One site said my fizz was limited to 12 oz size, and another said 20 oz. I saw a picture appearing to be fizz with a 24 inside, which I later I saw listed as better. The only really convenient refill site only charged me $3.50 for a 20 oz fill which is a bit bigger than my sodastreams. They said they underfilled it to avoid overexpansion in transport, and I had to fill out all kinds of paperwork to promise to not carry it in a hot car, etc. At the register I had to show ID and sign god knows what about not being a sniper or something. I don't feel any liquid sloshing around when I tip it and it doesn't feel much heavier, so wonder if I need to get one of those (larger) tanks with a temperature driven "fill level" gauge on the side?

Anyway on the second attempt, I got the setscrew right and when using it I got kind of a softer than normal blast of gas. Maybe that is the way the valve affects things by making a longer twisted path to the soda bottle? But it sounds a lot like when the liquid co2 is about used up and I'm coasting on the last dregs of gas. My Fizz model has a useless pressure gauge that never gives warning... it read max full when my last sodastream tank was clear as day in it's last gasp (it also uselessly marks all soda drink bottles as zero or the lowest level fizz, and the latter only when it is insanely bubbly). Hoping for the best, but preparing for expensive plan B's...
 
Next time you refill, you might try weighing the (completely empty) paintball CO2 cylinder both before and after filling. I believe they're only rater for 12 oz. or 20 oz., depending on the cylinder.
 
Why can't you drill a hole in the original sodastream co2 tank, and then have a flare connector welded onto the tank. Then run a high pressure hose from a 20lb tank to the modified sodastream tank?
 
Co2doctor sells an adaptor to refill a sodastream tank and also you can unscrew the sodastream brass fitting to be replaced with another de-boobytrapped co2doc fitting... probably costly. I may be OK with the paintball thingie, maybe after some pleading with the refill guy. I did notice that my sodastream tanks would be quite a bit heavier when full, and you could slosh liquid back and forth. I will stay on the lookout for some holiday special deal to exchange my 2 sodastream tanks as a backup anyway. Sodastream says they still own them, not the buyer.

I may have a paintball gas fitting leak. I first used it with the back panel removed and didn't notice a leak, but should examine it again. Co2doc says sodastream uses poor quality seals which he can replace. BTW, i noticed the inside was all lightly frosted looking. I think that wasn't from a co2 leak, but from the blast of water when you remove the carbonated bottle. It is so evenly sprayed, I bet it is mineralization from the fine mist of backfired water. Good that I don't carbonate already flavored water. or something that might attract bugs could build up in there. I can carbonate OK with enough pulses, but it acts different.
 
The paintball tank is still working... possibly not as fast and high pressure as sodastream tanks, but here is a faq that gives ideas for tuning it: http://www.co2doctor.com/learning.htm . I can get to that buzzing sound ok, which he says is a sodastream vent for when pressure reaches a limit. Now I am worried about the ptank hydrotest required every third year... costs as much as a sodastream tank exchange but with sodastream you don't pay for the test.
 
i got a soda stream for christmas and i do love it but right away i noticed the lies in there ads when a tank is $30+ for a "swap"
i started looking for answers to a truly cheaper way! and i found this

http://www.criticalpaintball.com/So...-CO2-Adapter-Save-Mo-p/sodastream-sodamod.htm

this lets me use a 24oz regular CO2 tank i have 3 now and i get them filled at my local sporting goods store!! for $5 a bottle
i have done even more research and i am now looking at other forced systems because i am about to start home crafting soda and root beer
but this has helped out a lot!! though i would share


Marc
 
Found that Target does the 'return' on the 14 oz sodastream proprietary valve. We love using the carbonated waters with various flavoring and syrups. The long term costs were going to be exorbitant so I chose this route..

Co2 doctor has the freedom +, got it for 117.00 shipped, arrived third day.
Then purchased a 20 lb co2 tank from Air-Gas (tons of places across the US), mine happens to be 0.5 miles from my house. The tank with a 20 pound fill of co2 (which the first one is included in the purchase) was 144.00 with 11.00 of that being NY taxes.(the lease option was 11 bucks a month, so just after a year or longer of use made the buyout cheaper in the long run.)

However many carbonations we end up getting out of a 14 oz, we should see about 20-25 times as many out of the 20 pound charge.

Taking that on the low end makes it 20 x 15 plus gas for the car and a hour round trip to Target each time.. 300 bucks and the hassle..

The purchase option, 261.00 and set it and forget it for the length of the tank.

Refills are cheaper at other places (ie paintball outlets, sports stores) for the 20 lb, but I am going to go with Airgas for swapping out full cylinders. I know they will have fully certified and tested cylinders, and they use industrial standard procedures and equipment for all their gases. Refills are going to be about 45.00 for the 20 pounds.

So second go around using the old sodastream, would be the 300 + the time and travel hassles.. vs 45.00 and a trip to Airgas, plus 3 minutes to hook up the freedom plus.

Note, that if you set ANY co2 cylinder on its side for a while, it will take a while for the liquid to settle away from the top outlet if it is quite full. Liquid in the valve area will really affect the operation of your sodastream, let the newly transported cartridge sit upright for 15 minutes before you put in into your machine.
 
Looks like i will only be paying $10-15 a year to refill my paintball bottle, which fits nicely within my soda stream housing without extra clutter. I just walk it rather than drive, a very few times per year. Extra costs were only $20 bottle and $45 valve (not counting any future hydrotest). BBY finally started sending me physical $5 coupons if I wanted to get soda stream bottles swapped for $15.
 
i use the soda stream (fizz gizz guy makes them).
it was 35.00 if i remember right. I connect that to a 5lb co2 tank (lasts about 2 years @ 5 or so 20oz sodas a day.
the 5lb tank i lease from napa (the car place.. they lease co2 and other gas tanks). It cost 150.00 to lease the tank (i get all that back when ever i return the tank). 15.00 to fill the 5lb tank with gas.
kurt
 
I don't think I will get 2 years from the 20 pound cylinder.. the 14 oz that came with the unit was supposed to do 50 liters of carbonation, we were seeing about 35-40 per 14 ounce cylinder.

We should see about 22 times as much from a 20 pound (320 ounce) container, roughly. So, 5 a day, total available 750-800 carbonations, should be about 150-160 days unless I am missing something.

I can't see how you get 3600 carbonations from a 5 pound container. (2 years at 5 a day), we certainly don't get that kind of mileage here.

Mark
 
I use dry ice (aka frozen CO2) from the grocery store to refill the Soda Stream. To my knowledge, dry ice from the grocery store is food grade (since it’s intended to be used for that), and only costs about $2/pound. The 60L Canister holds 1 pound of dry ice, while the 130L holds two pounds. Moreover, you don't need an adaptor (which costs over $50) and can use the existing canisers.

.

Hope this helps. I've been doing this for the past several months with no problems.
 
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For Xmas this year the family purchased a soda stream and we are already looking at the paintball tank alternatives but would like to know which one has shown to be better in the long run the version from the CO2 Doctor or the Soda Mod version ? They are both offering a package where you can get two tanks (up to 24oz tanks) and the adapter for around a 115 dollars....Seems like a lot until you know the tanks will last longer than the expensive smaller CO2 tanks that are produced for Sodastream...

So we are looking at one of the alternatives just want to know the success and failures on both systems.

Thanks in advance
 
I might stick with one paintball tank because they have a short life until you have to do an expensive hydrotest. Hate to have 2 of them ageing at once... where I live I can almost buy a new one from ebay for the same price of a hydrotest. With the co2 doctor, don't tighten the allen wrench with any but the very lightest pressure or else it is hard to back out.
 
I might stick with one paintball tank because they have a short life until you have to do an expensive hydrotest. Hate to have 2 of them ageing at once... where I live I can almost buy a new one from ebay for the same price of a hydrotest. With the co2 doctor, don't tighten the allen wrench with any but the very lightest pressure or else it is hard to back out.

So would a Dick's Sporting goods do the hydro test on the tank and do they do them when a paintballer brings in their tanks to be filled? When I called my local Dick's sporting goods they said 24 oz tank to fill would be 4.49 and the fifth fill is free, a 20 oz tank is 3.99 again 5th fill free....

On your CO2 Dr. adapter did you have to mess with it at all when you got it ? or was it some fine tuning that led you to finding out the don't tighten?

thanks again for all the information.
 
Dick's usually doesn't even check the date before they fill. Either that or they don't care. I've filled an out of date tank at my local Dick's without issue.
 
Every time you screw on an adaptor (eg. after refill), you have to adjust with an allen wrench so that the range of motion starts with the height of the nipple, and lets you depress the nipple by a fixed amount to release gas. It can vary each time based on how tight you screw on the assembly in the first place.

I messed this up at first, I guess because I tried it on an empty bottle which didn't hold the nipple maxed out. co2 doc said screw the thing in until resistance, then back out a bit. I hit no resistance until it suddenly wouldn't go in or out, probably due to slipping alongside the nipple. Only with a microscope could I see how to force the fragile brass threads and tiny allen socket to free up without damage.

Anyway, it seems to work fine now, although fiddly. Works better for me to back it out a bit less than co2 doc says, or the co2 squirts are prematurely limited. The other vendor seems to have you adjust by eye rather than (feather) tightness, which might be easier.

I only have one convenient co2 vendor, so would hate to be banned by repeatedly bringing expired co2 bottles. I will do it until one warning... some clerks check dates in my presence, and others may check in the back room. They don't do hydrotests or sell the big bottles ($3.50 refill charge for 20 or 24 oz). They said hydrotests have to be done elsewhere (possibly 4000 air mile round trip) for something like $30. I got a terrific deal for an ebay paintbottle under $20 and no charge for 3000 air mile postage... guess I lucked out on time left before expiration.
 
Ended up going with co2doctor and one of his buy it now's on eBay it was actually cheaper than his website two tanks 24oz and adapter


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
 
CO2 doctor adapter and tanks arrived filled at dicks sporting goods under ten bucks adjusted working great and with bag in box diet dr pepper wife is very happy thanks for the information



Sent from my iPad using Home Brew
 
Why can't you drill a hole in the original sodastream co2 tank, and then have a flare connector welded onto the tank.

Don't screw with the tank. It isn't a barbecue gas bottle. CO2 tanks run 1,800 psi on a hot day, or about ten times that of propane. The alloy is heat treated and welding gets hot enough to affect it not to mention localized stress around the added hole. When it ruptures, it will obliterate your house and take you out if you're unlucky enough to be near it.
 
For Xmas this year the family purchased a soda stream and we are already looking at the paintball tank alternatives but would like to know which one has shown to be better in the long run the version from the CO2 Doctor or the Soda Mod version ? They are both offering a package where you can get two tanks (up to 24oz tanks) and the adapter for around a 115 dollars....Seems like a lot until you know the tanks will last longer than the expensive smaller CO2 tanks that are produced for Sodastream...

So we are looking at one of the alternatives just want to know the success and failures on both systems.

Thanks in advance

See my post (#11 01-15-2014, 10:45 PM): I'm still refilling my SodaStream CO2 tanks using dry ice. You don't need any adapters or additional cylinders. It's food grade CO2 and only takes about 10 minutes (which I'm guessing is less time than you spend waiting on someone to refill a cylinder at a paintball store).

Moreover, if you want a new tank, just exchange the SodaStream cylinder for a new one. The first time you take the top adapter off, you do have to tap the wrench a few times (assuming you don't have a vice), but after that, it's very easy.

I have two 60L and a 130L soda stream cylinders and I've probably refilled them each 10 times.

In my area, Sacramento, dry ice is available at most grocery stores (Raley's, Bel Air, Safeway) for under $2/pound. A 60L SodaStream cylinder holds 420 grams of CO2 (according to the cylinder), but I usually put a pound (454 grams).

Steve
 
I appreciate hearing about the dry ice way of refill, although I can't imagine my local grocery stores carry it. I don't have a sturdy work surface or tools to smash and handle dry ice, but I hear it is sometimes sold as pellets anyway.

My paintball bottle setup is working great... no need to waste space for corny kegs or lines, and I can get a refill within walking distance as well as flavorings superior to either sodastream or coke/pepsi family. I think the conventional flavor box stuff costs as much here as when commercially canned, and would be a pain for me to transport.
 
Dear homebrew users,

so i have bought one of the empire paint ball tanks 24oz compatible with an adapter with my soda stream fountain... there is no co2 recharge where i live, anybody knows how much dry ice i can safely put in my 24oz tank. i have read all messages here but i could not find the clear answer to that question.

thanks!!!
 
CO2 is sold by weight, so you should be good with 24oz. If you blow yourself up, though, I will not be held responsible. I can't imagine they're designed to be refilled using that method.
 
CO2 is sold by weight, so you should be good with 24oz. If you blow yourself up, though, I will not be held responsible. I can't imagine they're designed to be refilled using that method.

Thanks for your reply makes me laughed a lot!! Ok then i will experiment with 20oz first maybe. i think there is the safety valve that is suppose so blow first in case of over pressure in the tank. Thanks again i will let you know what happened ;)
 
Old thread, but hopefully someone can chime in.

I just recently switched over from the proprietary bottles to an adapter. I have two 24oz tanks that fit in the machine I have (it's a Fizzini).

The amount of Co2 coming from the tanks is significantly more than what comes from the standard, proprietary bottles. Those ones would last me a few months, but the paintball tank (freshly filled) didn't make it through a day. There are, unfortunately, not leaks.

Is there a way to regulate the amount of Co2 coming out of the tank and through the system? I am guessing I can adjust the whatever it's called that you have to bring flush with the top on the adapter, but I don't want to blow up the kitchen or my face in the process.

Any recommendations?
 
I figured it out, and for anyone else thinking of this ... you just use MUCH less time when purging the Co2 in to the liquid. Instead of 5-10 seconds you only need 1-3 seconds. Don't forget to shake the holy bajesus out of it though.
 
FWIW, I kept looking at the SodaStream math and couldn't understand why it cost so much more than just buying the seltzer.

I ended up buying a used corny keg for $50, CO2 bottle (5#) for $85 full from a local carbonation store, a regulator online for $45, and the tubing and connectors and dispenser valve (picnic tap) for maybe another $25. You get endless amounts of soda much more efficiently and cheaply.

A 2.5 gal. Torpedo Keg from MoreBeer is $85 (occasional discounts and sitewide sales) but fits in the fridge.

More cash up front, but it lets you expand and do other interesting things— like make a keg of mimosas for a party LOL.
 
I make carbonated water in one-liter batches using a 10 pound CO2 cylinder, regulator, and a hose I obtained through Amazon that is specifically designed to attach the CO2 output to one-liter bottles. I set the regulator to 30 pounds. I chill the water such that it has some ice mixed in, connected the bottle, inverted the bottle, turn on the gas valve, and shake it until no more gas bubbles into the water. That takes two or three minutes. I have found that a ten-pound CO2 cylinder is enough for 600 to 800 liters to be carbonated this way. At $40.00 to fill the gas cylinder, 800 liters comes to 5 cents per liter. Once I have a bottle of carbonated water, I will sometimes drink that straight, or I will mix it about 50-50 with iced coffee, grapefruit juice, apple juice, pineapple juice, or even tomato juice. I have also mixed sweetener and flavor with the water prior to carbonation using a wide variety of extracts - even kool aid.

As a calculation, I will buy a half gallon of, say, grapefruit juice for about $3.00. Mixed with the carbonated water that will make a gallon of beverage in the strength I like it. The cost comes to the $3.00 for the juice, about $.20 for the carbonated water, plus maybe another $.10 to amortize the cost of the gas cylinder and regulator. I see using the Soda Stream machine or any of its competitors as impossibly expensive.
 

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