Changing Draft Beer Lines?

[Oleson M.D.]

How often should the beer lines be replaced?

My upstairs bar has 6 taps. The beer will pick up an off flavor after sitting in the lines for 30 minutes. These lines are about 8 years old, and they are cleaned on a regular basis.

My outdoor kitchen bar has a brand new tower, with new never before used vinyl tubing. The beer tastes great! Even after sitting all night, the first pour is flawless.

What is your experience? Is there a recommended schedule for changing out the lines?

 

[sfrisby]

Is it worth pouring a beer outside. Moving the keg inside. Pouring a beer inside then have a side by side taste test to verify?

 

[Oleson M.D.]

Is it worth pouring a beer outside. Moving the keg inside. Pouring a beer inside then have a side by side taste test to verify?

Did a side-by-side taste test, several times with the same results.
No room for the 1/4 bbl keg in the upstairs bar. That's why it's in the patio now.
The results were verified immediately.
Is there a life expectancy for vinyl beer tubing?
I have several beer lines that have not been used for some time, and have gotten very sticky, almost like glue.

 

[Langerz]

Has the upstairs bar always done this or is it new? Do all 6 taps do this?

If it was me I would probably just replace them. I think my total cost I have in beer lines is a few bucks. Even if that’s not it it’s a cheap thing to try.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

Has the upstairs bar always done this or is it new? Do all 6 taps do this?

If it was me I would probably just replace them. I think my total cost I have in beer lines is a few bucks. Even if that’s not it it’s a cheap thing to try.

Yes, all 6 taps upstairs do this. And the lines are clean! It has been an issue for some years now. Always thought a cleaning would fix the problem, but not so.
My brand new tower has no issues at all.
Beer that sits overnight is just as good as the next pour.

 

[kevin58]

If you've have the problem for "some years now" and cleaning hasn't helped I think you know the answer... you should have replaced them some years ago. I replace mine about every two to three years. Compared to other equipment that we use beer line is cheap.

 

[sibelman]

@Oleson M.D. , I urge you to consider changing to EVAbarrier lines when you change out your nasty vinyl lines. Aside from their benefit in reducing oxygen ingress, they seem immune to flavor problems even after several years. You might have a look at this HBT thread, which deals with replacement of EVAbarrier beer lines. Mine are three years old. With cleaning, they seem good as new.

There's some learning curve with getting EVAbarrier onto barbs, but it's not that hard. Many use push-in Duotight fittings instead.

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

I urge you to consider changing to EVAbarrier lines

I second that, for all the reasons given! ^

Use either Duotight or John Guest push-fit (push-to-connect, ptc) fittings wherever you can. I prefer the Acetal fittings over polypropylene, but haven't found a valid reason why.
Fresh Water Systems has a large range, and sell 10-packs at a decent discount.

• You can stretch the line over barbs where needed, or use a short piece of thicker line and size adapters.
• Don't use ptc fittings close to bends.
• Don't leave the fittings soaking in Starsan for longer times.

 

[sibelman]

Don't use ptc fittings close to bends.

Because space is tight in my kegerator, every fitting is close to bends. This quickly ended my early experiment with PTC fittings. But I folks love 'em, and I respect that.

I hate leaks, and feel very confident with barbs and Oetikers. They do complicate making changes, but those are rare for me, especially as EVAbarrier seems long-lasting.

 

[IslandLizard]

Because space is tight in my kegerator, every fitting is close to bends.

Just a thought.
I envision pieces of thin copper or stainless tubing could be bent into curves to hold/support the EVA line in tighter bends near ptc fittings, reducing or eliminating stress on where the ends enter the fittings.

Using 90° Kegland keg disconnects eliminates extra height needed above the kegs.

 

[DuncB]

I think from the duotight connections thread the evidence was to not let the starsan dry on the outside of push fit connector as some vulnerable to the increase in concentration that occurs as the starsan dries. Washing / spraying it off would help. Agree with the change to EVA barrier and the use of the new ball lock duotight connectors has helped in tight space of my keg fridge.

 

[Langerz]

Because space is tight in my kegerator, every fitting is close to bends. This quickly ended my early experiment with PTC fittings. But I folks love 'em, and I respect that.

I hate leaks, and feel very confident with barbs and Oetikers. They do complicate making changes, but those are rare for me, especially as EVAbarrier seems long-lasting.

I used a couple PTC 90º in some tight spots

 

[505-Brewer]

How often you change the lines will depend on the usage and your cleaning regime. If the lines are compromised then cleaning them obviously won’t help. Curious though. What is your cleaning regime? Also dont leave the lines filled w star san as it breaks down the tubing.
Here is a resource for you. May be of some use. Been a awhile since I’ve read it. I would think with proper care you should be able to get a couple years from your tubing.

Cheers!

https://www.brewersassociation.org/educational-publications/draught-beer-quality-manual/

 

[kelli]

Im interested to know how people clean lines, and if they leave product in them between drinking days, or rinse after cleaning etc...

Bar use here is 1 or 2 times a week... so can be 4 days between pours
Thanks for advice

 

[day_trippr]

Aside from when I'm cleaning them, my keezer beer lines always have beer in them. My current lines are EVABarrier 4mm ID installed in November of 2019 and cleaned yearly since, and I have not noted any quality issues...

Cheers!

 

[Langerz]

Im interested to know how people clean lines, and if they leave product in them between drinking days, or rinse after cleaning etc...

Bar use here is 1 or 2 times a week... so can be 4 days between pours
Thanks for advice

I pretty much clean when ever a keg kicks. I have it set up to easily clean all four at the same time so I just hit them all when a kegs goes. I probably get them something like monthly which is less that the bar recommendation but I haven’t had any issues. I don’t do anything between pours but use EVAbarrier and their isn’t much volume in the lines.

I also only use the standard cleaner and not the caustic stuff. As I said earlier in the thread I do t have much cost in my lines so just plan to replace them every so often.

 

[sibelman]

I clean beer line between kegs (almost always). For me this means rinsing with a gallon of hot tap water, then a gallon of beer line cleaner, then a final rinse with another gallon of hot tap water.

 

[Yesfan]

Im interested to know how people clean lines, and if they leave product in them between drinking days, or rinse after cleaning etc...

Bar use here is 1 or 2 times a week... so can be 4 days between pours
Thanks for advice

I might run cleaner/sanitizer through my lines after every 2-3 kegs. Most of the time, it's a hot water rinse between the kegs.

I agree with the others about the EVA Barrier and PTC connections (John Guest and/or Duotight). Like Franks's Red Hot, I use that sh!t on everything........

 

[Skeeter686]

Also dont leave the lines filled w star san as it breaks down the tubing.

Which types of beer line are affected by this?

I have often had StarSan sitting in a beer line if I do a cleaning and don't have a keg to immediately tap. I did not think that the lines would be affected.

 

[Yesfan]

Which types of beer line are affected by this?

I have often had StarSan sitting in a beer line if I do a cleaning and don't have a keg to immediately tap. I did not think that the lines would be affected.

If I had to guess, he's talking about the vinyl lines. Think about using a blow off hose, probably also made from the same material, with the end of it in a jar of sanitizer. At the end of fermentation, you've seen how gummy the section submerged in Star-san gets. My guess is the same can be said for vinyl beer lines if left full of Star-san for more than a few days.

Like many others who use it, I replaced all my beer (and gas) lines with EVA Barrier and push to connect fittings from either Duotight or John Guest. The two biggest pros for me going this route were.... 1) No off flavors. The old line would let the beer in it go stale if I went a day before pulling the next pint. After flushing it with "fresh" beer from the keg, it tasted fine. 2) Because 4mm ID line is smaller than 3/16 ID, you don't have to have long runs of beer line to balance your keg setup. 3) The lines and fittings are also super cheap, so I guess that's really three pros.

 

[day_trippr]

Star San probably affects more plastics than not.

Leaving standard Star San mix in solid PVC line has been known to create a white haze inside the line. Also, Star San will definitely dissolve Delrin over time - this was discovered while sanitizing epoxy "mixer sticks" which were used inside corny keg dip tubes to tune line resistance years ago. And while I did not experience that specific issue, the spigot I use on my Star San reservoir bucket has to be replaced every 4-5 years because its threading gets eaten up enough for the lock nut to slip. I have also had it soften carboy caps to the point they're unusable.

I do not know if it will cause the same whitish haze in the EVABarrier tubing I've been using since late 2019, totally different plastics used inside and out on that line. But I don't even bother sanitizing my beer lines. I recirculate warm BLC or LLC - whichever I have on hand - through them yearly, then rinse with fresh water, and that's it. Hook all six taps back up and fill with beer and I'm good to go for another year...

Cheers!

 

[DuncB]

Aside from when I'm cleaning them, my keezer beer lines always have beer in them. My current lines are EVABarrier 4mm ID installed in November of 2019 and cleaned yearly since, and I have not noted any quality issues...

Cheers!

Do you really only clean them yearly? Even if you don't change the beer.
I'm maybe overdoing it monthly flush through with PBW and then starsan.

 

[DuncB]

Starsan certainly destroys the Coke bottle I keep it in with a Kegland ball lock red on the top.
Interestingly only the neck cracks up the rest is okay.

 

[Neldog0]

Im interested to know how people clean lines, and if they leave product in them between drinking days, or rinse after cleaning etc...

Bar use here is 1 or 2 times a week... so can be 4 days between pours
Thanks for advice

If I change types of beer I pull the tap & lines, rinse the lines, & clean the tap. I use brushes and run them through the lines & tap assembly. I replaced the line after 10 years of use. If I have a question about residue in the line I have a cleaning system that’s I can run PBW or citric acid to clean everything out of the line.

 

[day_trippr]

Do you really only clean them yearly? Even if you don't change the beer.

Under normal operating conditions, yes.
If something comes up where I'm reconfiguring the keezer guts I'll do a cleaning cycle, but otherwise, yearly...

Cheers!

 

[Skeeter686]

Think about using a blow off hose, probably also made from the same material, with the end of it in a jar of sanitizer. At the end of fermentation, you've seen how gummy the section submerged in Star-san gets. My guess is the same can be said for vinyl beer lines if left full of Star-san for more than a few days.

In a podcast that I listened to, Charlie Talley (inventor of StarSan) stated that the "slime" that collects on vinyl hoses submerged in StarSan is not a chemical reaction or any sort of decomposition of the plastic. I believe he attributed that to the detergent having some sort of affinity for plastic surfaces. I'd need to find the podcast and confirm.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

I clean my lines 3-4 times a year. You need to do the taps and keg connectors, too. I disassemble them and soak them for a few minutes sometimes taking a brush to them. I still use vinyl, but EVBarrier needs the same care. I put on new lines about every two years and am about due to put on new ones. I think I'll bite the bullet and go ev this time, or maybe try at least a few of the taps. My keezer has 8 taps, so it looks like a substantial investment for all the little parts if I do it all at once. Where's the best place to get stuff?

 

[franknbeans]

I clean my lines 3-4 times a year. You need to do the taps and keg connectors, too. I disassemble them and soak them for a few minutes sometimes taking a brush to them. I still use vinyl, but EVBarrier needs the same care. I put on new lines about every two years and am about due to put on new ones. I think I'll bite the bullet and go ev this time, or maybe try at least a few of the taps. My keezer has 8 taps, so it looks like a substantial investment for all the little parts if I do it all at once. Where's the best place to get stuff?

I like to buy from www.williamsbrewing.com for Evabarrier and duotight fittings. Always have had good interactions with them and prices are comparable or lower than MoreBeer. They do run sales periodically on this stuff so keep an eye out.

 

[wepeeler]

@Oleson M.D. , I urge you to consider changing to EVAbarrier lines when you change out your nasty vinyl lines. Aside from their benefit in reducing oxygen ingress, they seem immune to flavor problems even after several years. You might have a look at this HBT thread, which deals with replacement of EVAbarrier beer lines. Mine are three years old. With cleaning, they seem good as new.

There's some learning curve with getting EVAbarrier onto barbs, but it's not that hard. Many use push-in Duotight fittings instead.

Cheers!

Do you use beerstone remover or line cleaner to clean your lines? My evabarrier lines are about a year old, and I usually just soak them in PBW, rinse, then Star San. I held them up to a light last night and immediately replaced them. I was shocked at how much beerstone was in them. Yuck...

 

[DuncB]

Do you use beerstone remover or line cleaner to clean your lines? My evabarrier lines are about a year old, and I usually just soak them in PBW, rinse, then Star San. I held them up to a light last night and immediately replaced them. I was shocked at how much beerstone was in them. Yuck...

I've occasionally used caustic as well as your regime. Not had a beerstone problem yet.

 

[sibelman]

Do you use beerstone remover or line cleaner to clean your lines? My evabarrier lines are about a year old, and I usually just soak them in PBW, rinse, then Star San. I held them up to a light last night and immediately replaced them. I was shocked at how much beerstone was in them. Yuck...

I usually use BLC (with hot water before and after). I have not noticed any accumulation, though maybe I haven't looked very hard

 

[wepeeler]

I've occasionally used caustic as well as your regime. Not had a beerstone problem yet.

Thanks!

I usually use BLC (with hot water before and after). I have not noticed any accumulation, though maybe I haven't looked very hard

I'm glad I did look, although I wasn't super happy. Shows I need to pay more attention to my cold side stuff

 

[sibelman]

I've got replacement EVAbarrier tubing ready, and will look harder when I get back home.

 

[beren]

EVAbarrier is nice. It doesn't absorb much at all.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

Rather than go to the trouble and expense of new beer lines, I purchased two new 3 tap draft towers, complete with lines and fittings. They are very nice, and were $68 / ea.

Here is the problem...the vinyl beer lines are off-gassing a plastic taste to the beer. And these are brand new! It is only noticeable on the first pour. After that, all is well.

These are made in China, of course.

As stated, my new Tap-Rite draft tower has no issues at all. Beer can sit in the line overnight, and it still tastes fresh. USA made.

I know people who refuse to drink coffee from a plastic cup for the same reason...they can taste the plastic.

Are there any beer lines that are 100% odor free? That is the culprit.

These two triple tap towers are being returned.

edit: Some of my beer lines have turned a brownish color. They look like blotchy nicotine stains from cigarettes.

 

[beren]

Yeah. Evabarrier. And there’s another dual layer but evabarrier is easier/cheaper/smaller id so you need less to avoid foam.

 

[day_trippr]

Years ago barrier lined Bev Seal Ultra 235 was the line of choice, but pricey AF compared to the industry standard Bevlex 200 solid PVC tubing. EVABarrier is superior in many ways and is reasonably priced imo, especially for what it provides...

Cheers!

 

[Broken Crow]

Given the number of prominent members who have touted the very real ease and benefits of EVABarrier and duotights on here, it seems you'd rather not for some reason and ended up replacing your problem with the same problem. Pretty much any tower/tap 'assembly' you buy is going to include the lowest grade materials available. The only way to deal with the lines themselves is to replace them. If not for the space issues I have and not wanting to have large coils of lines hanging in my kegerator, I'd gladly have stuck to Bevlex 200 with hose-clamps on barbs. You can just buy the hose and replace it the same way as it is now. BrewHardware.com - High end, practical homebrewing hardware, accessories and ingredients for making beer, wine, mead, and cider.

 

[beren]

You don’t have to use Duotight, you can get eva barrier on quarter inch barbs with some hot but not boiling water.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

I just ran a Q-Tip into the opening on one beer line. It came out dark brown, again looking like nicotine stains.

Replacing the lines on a triple tap tower is a bloody nightmare. My hands are all cut up just from changing out a few fittings.

That is why I bought new towers, thinking that new, clean lines would fix the problem.

Some of my older USA made towers have the same issue...the vinyl odor from the beer line influences the beer flavor.