Cellar Science English yeast

[BongoYodeler]

I have a 1.050 nut brown ale currently in the fermenter and am using CS English yeast for the first time. I think it's supposedly the CS version of Safale S-04. Anyway, prior to pitching I re-hydrated one pack, following the instructions, and pitched it 36 hours ago. So far nothing. I have a blowoff from the fermenter directly attached to liquid out post on the serving keg, with a spunding valve on the gas in port, set wide open (instead of an airlock). The Rapt Pill inside the fermenter has indicated a one half gravity point drop, which in my experience may mean nothing. Anyone else here ever use this yeast before, and if so have you noticed it taking a long time to get going?

 

[brewbama]

I have use CS yeast strains and found the same long lag with each. very disappointing.

…Until…

I started rehydrating with Go Ferm.

I place water in a mason jar, add the Go Ferm, shake it like it owes me money. I mean shake the $#!+ out of it until a frothy head develops, then add the yeast. Let it sit about 15-20 min then shake the crap out of it. I start rehydrating with this process right after I mash in and get my recirculation going. I continue shaking randomly throughout brew day, maybe 5-7 times or more, then after the boil, and I cool the wort, I add Fermax and shake it again, then pitch it. kind of my version of a SnS starter normally used w/liquid yeast.

Since I began doing this I have been getting faster starts, more vigorous fermentation, and complete attenuation. i do this with all dry yeast now. I even got Bry-97 to start within a five hours vs 16 +/-2 which is what I routinely saw prior to this method.

 

[BongoYodeler]

I have use CS yeast strains and found the same long lag with each. very disappointing.

…Until…

I started rehydrating with Go Ferm.

I place water in a mason jar, add the Go Ferm, shake it like it owes me money. I mean shake the $#!+ out of it until a frothy head develops, then add the yeast. Let it sit about 15-20 min then shake the crap out of it. I start rehydrating with this process right after I mash in and get my recirculation going. I continue shaking randomly throughout brew day, maybe 5-7 times or more, then after the boil, and I cool the wort, I add Fermax and shake it again, then pitch it. kind of my version of a SnS starter normally used w/liquid yeast.

Since I began doing this I have been getting faster starts, more vigorous fermentation, and complete attenuation. i do this with all dry yeast now. I even got Bry-97 to start within a few hours vs a day +.

It started showing signs of fermentation a couple hours ago. I was just being impatient I guess.

Thanks for your tip, I may try doing that next time. I've used CS yeasts before (first time using English though), and I've also noticed a longer lag time, but I always had a very good attenuation with CS when all is said and done.

 

[Kickass]

Curious how this goes for you. The only cellar science I’ve had luck with is German lager. Monk was slooowwwww to start and had no Belgian character. English came out a huge banana and clove bomb. So odd that I emailed morebeer to ask if there was a re-packaging/labeling error. Additionally, it never cleared. It was very murky for the entire time. It was the most unexpected fermentation I’ve ever had. I can share my fermentation specifics if interested if interested.

 

[BongoYodeler]

That's really weird about your experience with CS English. Did MoreBeer ever get back to you? Sure sounds like a mis-label. And yeah, I'd love to hear about the fermentation details, when you have time.

I was originally thinking of co-pitching CS English with Cali yeasts, so I bought a pk of each. But the more I thought about it I decided against it. Since I have used Cali a few times I decided to not to co-pitch and just see what English alone would bring.

 

[hiphoppotamuss]

I have use CS yeast strains and found the same long lag with each. very disappointing.

…Until…

I started rehydrating with Go Ferm.

I place water in a mason jar, add the Go Ferm, shake it like it owes me money. I mean shake the $#!+ out of it until a frothy head develops, then add the yeast. Let it sit about 15-20 min then shake the crap out of it. I start rehydrating with this process right after I mash in and get my recirculation going. I continue shaking randomly throughout brew day, maybe 5-7 times or more, then after the boil, and I cool the wort, I add Fermax and shake it again, then pitch it. kind of my version of a SnS starter normally used w/liquid yeast.

Since I began doing this I have been getting faster starts, more vigorous fermentation, and complete attenuation. i do this with all dry yeast now. I even got Bry-97 to start within a five hours vs 16 +/-2 which is what I routinely saw prior to this method.

This is gold right here!
How much GoFerm/Fermax do you use per packet of dry yeast?

 

[brewbama]

1 tsp Go Ferm per pkg yeast and 2 tsp Fermax. Directions say 1 tsp Fermax per gal but I don’t use that much

 

[hiphoppotamuss]

1 tsp Go Ferm per pkg yeast and 2 tsp Fermax. Directions say 1 tsp Fermax per gal but I don’t use that much

Awesome. I’ll have to try this next time. I use almost exclusively dry yeast these days, but I’m not a big fan of the lag time often seen with dry yeasts.

 

[Kickass]

That's really weird about your experience with CS English. Did MoreBeer ever get back to you? Sure sounds like a mis-label. And yeah, I'd love to hear about the fermentation details, when you have time.

Morebeer responded, they said there was no mix up noted. They offered to refund the yeast and cost of ingredients. I declined since I planned to drink the beer anyway, it’s not bad and I figured I haven’t had a Hefeweizen on tap in a while so why not.

It was 100% GW Vienna, mashed at 152. Tettnanger at 45 and 10 minutes, 20 IBU’s. 1.052 OG. Fermented at 62 degrees for 3 days and brought up to 67 after.

Aside from the flavor, the part I couldn’t comprehend is that CS English is supposed to be a heavy flocculating yeast. This beer is still cloudy after 3 months.

 

[BongoYodeler]

That's very weird indeed. I can see some spice character coming from the Tettnanger hops, but not banana. And as far as the cloudiness this yeast is supposed to be both a good attenuator and very good flocculating yeast, like you said. It's nice that MoreBeer offered to step up, they do have good customer service. I try to buy my ingredients locally, but if I can't find something at my LHBS my next stop is usually MoreBeer.

btw, my nut brown seems to be fermenting away. After around 40 hours of nothing it's down over 15 gravity points in the past 24 hours. However, given your experience, I can't wait to try this one. I'm hoping it turns out ok.

 

[Kickass]

I’m eager to hear the outcome too. I can’t imagine my experience is the norm.

 

[Kickass]

@BongoYodeler any updates with this beer? How’d the fermentation profile turn out?

 

[BongoYodeler]

I’m eager to hear the outcome too. I can’t imagine my experience is the norm.

Sorry, I forgot to come back here with an update. So, as mentioned it was a bit slow to start fermenting, but it after 40 hours or so it did take off. Reached FG in around 5 days, and almost dead-on to what Beersmith estimated. BS - 1.011, actual - 1.012. Once it started it reached fg in 5 days, and I left it in the fermenter for couple weeks before cold crashing and transferring to the keg. I'm tasting no off flavors at all, though it probably would have benefitted with another week in the fermenter. But each time I pour a glass it's tasting better. I haven't had a glass in a few days, but I'll our one later today and give another update here.

 

[tdf]

I had 2 batches where I used Cellar Science English end up with a lot of pepper, banana, clove character. I bought the yeast in April 2023. Like you, I figured maybe something have been mislabeled but I just decided not to use that strain, just in case. The other Cellar Science dry yeast I've used has been great.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Here's my HB Nut Brown Ale fermented with CS English. Absolutely no off flavors, certainly no banana or clove. But I'm also not getting a lot of English character either. Finished at 1.012, 5.3%abv, and 76% attenuation. Kegged nine days ago. It'll be interesting to see how it tastes in a few weeks. If I brew this one again maybe I'll use S-04 dry or WY1098.

 

[Kickass]

@BongoYodeler so glad it finished without the banana and clove. It looks great in the glass!

@tdf I was thinking I might be going crazy but it sounds like I’m not the only one. I truly thought it was a German heff yeast, very pronounced.

I really like CS German lager but have not cared for Monk or English. I’ll certainly continue to use German lager but am real hesitant to expand Beyond that, given my experience.

 

[tdf]

@BongoYodeler so glad it finished without the banana and clove. It looks great in the glass!

@tdf I was thinking I might be going crazy but it sounds like I’m not the only one. I truly thought it was a German heff yeast, very pronounced.

I really like CS German lager but have not cared for Monk or English. I’ll certainly continue to use German lager but am real hesitant to expand Beyond that, given my experience.

German, Berlin, and Cali have all been good for me. Nectar just wasn't what I was expecting, but I don't think it was bad. I don't know what was going on with the English but after the 2nd batch I threw out the 3rd packet I had purchased.

 

[Kickass]

If Im a couple bucks short of free shipping I might try Cali but I don’t think I’ll go out of my way.

 

[Miraculix]

Here's my HB Nut Brown Ale fermented with CS English. Absolutely no off flavors, certainly no banana or clove. But I'm also not getting a lot of English character either. Finished at 1.012, 5.3%abv, and 76% attenuation. Kegged nine days ago. It'll be interesting to see how it tastes in a few weeks. If I brew this one again maybe I'll use S-04 dry or WY1098.

View attachment 863928

Sounds like Nottingham to me!

 

[BongoYodeler]

I've used Cali, English, and German. Longer lag time aside they've all performed ok for me.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Sounds like Nottingham to me!

Exactly what I was thinking as I typed that.
It's funny, the original recipe, that I sorta followed, actually uses Nottingham but I wanted something with a bit more character. So I decided to go with S-04, but my LHBS was out so he suggested CS English as a close match. Ah well, at least it's not all banana and clove.

 

[Miraculix]

Exactly what I was thinking as I typed that.
It's funny, the original recipe, that I sorta followed, actually uses Nottingham but I wanted something with a bit more character. So I decided to go with S-04, but my LHBS was out so he suggested CS English as a close match. Ah well, at least it's not all banana and clove.

Yes, Sounds like there was a mislabeling involved regarding that clove thing. If it's also cloudy, it's probably a Hewfeweizen yeast with the English label.

I think a nut brown with notti is something I would really enjoy. Yours looks very tasty.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Yes, Sounds like there was a mislabeling involved regarding that clove thing. If it's also cloudy, it's probably a Hewfeweizen yeast with the English label.

I think a nut brown with notti is something I would really enjoy. Yours looks very tasty.

Thanks. I followed the recipe in my previous post but subbed in Maris Otter for the 2-row, Dingeman's biscuit for the Victory malt, and Crisp pale chocolate for the chocolate malt. I followed the same hop schedule as the recipe, but also added a small wp addition of Fuggles, around 11.5g.

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks. I followed the recipe in my previous post but subbed in Maris Otter for the 2-row, Dingeman's biscuit for the Victory malt, and Crisp pale chocolate for the chocolate malt. I followed the same hop schedule as the recipe, but also added a small wp addition of Fuggles, around 11.5g.

I've just brewed with pale chocolate for the first time. I like it. I think I prefer it over normal chocolate malt regarding taste. I was a little bit surprised how little colour it adds so I will compensate for this next time with either a higher percentage or with a little bit of black malt or something similar.

 

[BongoYodeler]

I've just brewed with pale chocolate for the first time. I like it. I think I prefer it over normal chocolate malt regarding taste. I was a little bit surprised how little colour it adds so I will compensate for this next time with either a higher percentage or with a little bit of black malt or something similar.

I feel the same way about it. I forgot to mention, in the above recipe I also added .5oz of midnight wheat for a slight color adjustment.

 

[Miraculix]

I feel the same way about it. I forgot to mention, in the above recipe I also added .5oz of midnight wheat for a slight color adjustment.

Probably the most neutral way of adding additional colour. Plus a little bit of foam enhancement.

 

[Steveruch]

Yes, Sounds like there was a mislabeling involved regarding that clove thing. If it's also cloudy, it's probably a Hewfeweizen yeast with the English label.

I think a nut brown with notti is something I would really enjoy. Yours looks very tasty.

Nottingham is the only yeast I use in my nut brown.