Cell count question

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user 264271

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Hi folks,

First of all, sorry if this question has been posted before.
For a beer (10 Liters to fermenter) that's 1,092 OG BeerSmith Yeast starter calculator is calling for 165 billion cells, or 1.3 packages of Safale S-04.

I created a starter with just 1 package.

Questions:

- Is this enough for a healthy fermentation?
- For future brews, should I always follow the Yeast calculator's advice?
- What happens if I over-pitch (more yeast cells than called for/needed)?
- What safety (sanitization) meassures should I take to create a starter?

Thanks!
 
To get good answers you will need to provide some more information on your starter. How large was the starter and what gravity? How long did you let it build up? Was it a one step starter?

With dry yeast you are probably better off not making a starter. The yeast packet may well be cheaper than the DME or wort that you used. Especially if it is a big starter.

Find a yeast calculator that you like and use it every time. The value of the calculator is that it gives you a benchmark to start learning what it takes to make the beer you like.

Overpitching is generally less sensitive than underpitching. My understanding is that you need to go way way overboard to have overpitching be harmful to fermentation. It also depends on what you are trying to achieve. Some beers call for smaller pitches to attain particular character from the yeast. For instance Belgians like to have not too big of pitches and higher temps. The character of the yeast is a big part of the flavor for that beer style. A clean American Pale Ale would benefit from a much cleaner ferment. In that case overpitching would likely be less of an issue. Given your original gravity, this looks like a big Belgian, double IPA, or maybe even a barley wine. Again, more info will help people answer your question.

Sanitation is an extensive topic. If you have not already found How to Brew, you should take a look. It is full of great information.

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-1/brewing-preperations/sanitation/sanitizing-your-equipment

The AHA also has lots of good information
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/make-yeast-starter/

Depending on what you make your starter in, you may be able to just boil it in the fermentation vessel, which sanitizes it. Generally I spray everything that touches the equipment with StarSan. Flask, scissors, foil to cover the opening, etc.
 
For the starter, I mixed one Safale S-04 package in about 300ml of warm water, for a beer with a SG of 1,088.
I let the started build up for about 30 minutes, and I assume it was a one-step starter.


To get good answers you will need to provide some more information on your starter. How large was the starter and what gravity? How long did you let it build up? Was it a one step starter?

With dry yeast you are probably better off not making a starter. The yeast packet may well be cheaper than the DME or wort that you used. Especially if it is a big starter.

Find a yeast calculator that you like and use it every time. The value of the calculator is that it gives you a benchmark to start learning what it takes to make the beer you like.

Overpitching is generally less sensitive than underpitching. My understanding is that you need to go way way overboard to have overpitching be harmful to fermentation. It also depends on what you are trying to achieve. Some beers call for smaller pitches to attain particular character from the yeast. For instance Belgians like to have not too big of pitches and higher temps. The character of the yeast is a big part of the flavor for that beer style. A clean American Pale Ale would benefit from a much cleaner ferment. In that case overpitching would likely be less of an issue. Given your original gravity, this looks like a big Belgian, double IPA, or maybe even a barley wine. Again, more info will help people answer your question.

Sanitation is an extensive topic. If you have not already found How to Brew, you should take a look. It is full of great information.

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-1/brewing-preperations/sanitation/sanitizing-your-equipment

The AHA also has lots of good information
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/how-to-brew/make-yeast-starter/

Depending on what you make your starter in, you may be able to just boil it in the fermentation vessel, which sanitizes it. Generally I spray everything that touches the equipment with StarSan. Flask, scissors, foil to cover the opening, etc.
 
Just for clarity, what you created is not a starter. A starter is a yeast culture that's been allowed to multiply in low gravity wort, typically about 1.040 SG, and usually for at least 24 hours.

You simply rehydrated the yeast, which doesn't change its cell count in any way.
 
Thanks for the clarification. I thought both terms meant the same thing, which clearly do not.

I usually just pitch the yeast dry on top of the wort but this time, since this is a bigger beer than what I usually brew, I though of rehydrating the yeast as I learned that pitching the yeast directly on top of wort may kill up to 50% of cells right away.

Just for clarity, what you created is not a starter. A starter is a yeast culture that's been allowed to multiply in low gravity wort, typically about 1.040 SG, and usually for at least 24 hours.

You simply rehydrated the yeast, which doesn't change its cell count in any way.
 
Just for clarity, what you created is not a starter. A starter is a yeast culture that's been allowed to multiply in low gravity wort, typically about 1.040 SG, and usually for at least 24 hours.

You simply rehydrated the yeast, which doesn't change its cell count in any way.
@McKnuckle is spot on.
I usually just pitch the yeast dry on top of the wort but this time, since this is a bigger beer than what I usually brew, I though of rehydrating the yeast as I learned that pitching the yeast directly on top of wort may kill up to 50% of cells right away.
A few years ago yeast manufacturers (at least, Fermentis) have changed their recommendations. They now actually recommend pitching dry by sprinkling on top of the chilled wort. IOW, pre-rehydration is discouraged. We haven't seen any data or published research on that, or why they changed their tune after 20 some years.

Perhaps they reformulated the granules, refined their research, or it may simply be to remove any additional barriers for (novice) brewers. Doing simply "A" is much easier and appealing than "B, C and D with a 10-50' (minutes!) rehydration routine within a tight temperature range using a suitable vessel." Mind, these updated instructions apply the same to their (500 gram) "pro-packs" used by commercial breweries.

Actually, the older instructions specify that after the yeast slowly rehydrated and had sunk, to perform a 30' (minutes, not seconds) stir cycle before pitching. Many (most) of us either misread, or chalked it up to a misprint (' instead of ") and stirred for mere seconds, then pitched. We've been making millions of gallons of good homebrew beer that way!
These guidelines all became history suddenly...

I'd say RDWHAHB!
Look for a formation of krausen (foam) on top of your batch within a few days.
 
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