Cask conditioning

[JJ74]

Here is my dilema.

I have an English Bitter that I'm just about ready to put in my "cask" (using corny keg).

I made 5 gallons. I want to try to serve authentically.

I have my Keezer set to 50 degrees.

I have looked at set-up of using hand pump to avoid having to use CO2.

However, 5 gallons probably last me 3-4 months.

If I keep my keg sealed, a vacuum will develop and hand pump will not work.

If I open occassionally is oxidation still going to be an issue? any suggestions?

 

[billf2112]

I am wanting to try this, but since you really want yo kill the thing in a sitting, I was thinking small batch. I bought some 5L mini kegs, they have spouts built in and bung holes up top. Think at just over a gallon they are perfect.

 

[dzlater]

Could just open the relief valve when you want to pull a pint?

 

[JJ74]

Opening the relief valve would allow O2 in, which I am trying to avoid. I read suggestions about using an aspirator or breather or a low-pressure LPG regulator on CO2 cartridge to allow just enough CO2 in to blanket beer. Cannot find details on any of theses ideas though.

 

[jhall4]

If you're serving out of a corny I'd just manually purge the oxygen from the keg after a night of serving.

I think you might be able to just turn down a regulator as low as it will go and just use that to slowly replace CO2 as you pump out your beer too. Not sure how that would work with a cartridge, but I think it would be pretty doable with a normal tank.

Really cask ales are only supposed to be on tap for a couple days without a CO2 breather and a couple weeks with one, so shooting for 3-4 months is probably pushing it.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]I think you might be able to just turn down a regulator as low as it will go and just use that to slowly replace CO2 as you pump out your beer too. Not sure how that would work with a cartridge, but I think it would be pretty doable with a normal tank.[...]

I was thinking the same thing. Setting a regulator for 1 psi would provide around 1.1 volumes of CO2 at the classic cask ale serving temperature range (mid fifties F) which just happens to also be the classic carbonation level.

I could understand, however, if the OP wants to keep things primitive. He just has to keep in mind that casks were likely emptied in fairly short order - I doubt even medievals appreciated oxidized beer any more than we do

Cheers!

 

[AnchorBock]

I was thinking of trying a portable C02 keg charger (with the 16 gram cartridges) with a low pressure propane regulator. I'll probably pick it up within a week or two as I'll have a Mild ready at that point. I know others on the board have had success with the low pressure LPG regulators so as long as the Portable Charger setup works with it ok I think it's the cheapest and easiest way to go.

 

[boscobeans]

One of the things about a real or cask ale is the fact that it will change over the life of the keg. Depending on taste it may be better after two or three days..
Most smaller pubs don't kick a keg of the same brew each day so the beer will be breathing over a period of time.

bosco

 

[DPBISME]

I have been to Brew pubs that specialied in Cask Ales and they have a CO2 line going to each cask.

We must assume that it is Low pressure and designed just to take up the "headspace".

I usually pour out a few and then when it get going "slow" give it a shot of CO2. Since it is really not increasing the Pressure long enough for absobtion I don't wrry about it...

You could use the Portable CO2 Cartridges but in my experiance they leak and are not good for an extended period time.

SO, push gas when it get slow and if you think you put to much in VENT or DRINK until the pressure reduces

 

[boscobeans]

I have been to Brew pubs that specialied in Cask Ales and they have a CO2 line going to each cask.

We must assume that it is Low pressure and designed just to take up the "headspace".

I usually pour out a few and then when it get going "slow" give it a shot of CO2. Since it is really not increasing the Pressure long enough for absobtion I don't wrry about it...

You could use the Portable CO2 Cartridges but in my experiance they leak and are not good for an extended period time.

SO, push gas when it get slow and if you think you put to much in VENT or DRINK until the pressure reduces

Introducing just enough CO2 to take up the "headspace" will give you a beer that does not benefit (according to some tastes) by breathing. It will eventually be just a flat stable beer who's flavor changed only through the slow loss of carbonation.

Real ale? It would be good enough for me, but I am in no way a purist..LOL

bosco

 

[DPBISME]

Introducing just enough CO2 to take up the "headspace" will give you a beer that does not benefit (according to some tastes) by breathing. It will eventually be just a flat stable beer who's flavor changed only through the slow loss of carbonation.
bosco

Ahhhhhh but i say "Let it breathe in the Glass".

Usually what happens is I put it on gas towards the end anyway because of the hassle...

Then I get two beers from the same keg and can make a comparison.

DPB

 

[boscobeans]

Ahhhhhh but i say "Let it breathe in the Glass".

Usually what happens is I put it on gas towards the end anyway because of the hassle...

Then I get two beers from the same keg and can make a comparison.

DPB

You can also bottle a beer with a low carbonation level..
Once carbonated drink it fresh out of the bottle. Just like a fresh keg of cask ale on day one.

Gently pop the top (leaving it in place) and leave it in the cooler for a day and you have a day 2 cask ale... I quess about day 4 or 5 you might begin to notice a little twang developing but to each his own..

bosco

 

[AnchorBock]

I have been to Brew pubs that specialied in Cask Ales and they have a CO2 line going to each cask.

We must assume that it is Low pressure and designed just to take up the "headspace".

I usually pour out a few and then when it get going "slow" give it a shot of CO2. Since it is really not increasing the Pressure long enough for absobtion I don't wrry about it...

You could use the Portable CO2 Cartridges but in my experiance they leak and are not good for an extended period time.

SO, push gas when it get slow and if you think you put to much in VENT or DRINK until the pressure reduces

Thanks for the feedback - wasn't aware they have a tendency to leak. I kind of want one anyway so I don't have to haul my regulator and tank around when I bring kegs places so I'll just eventually plan to replace it with a normal c02 setup if it's leaky.

 

[jhall4]

Gently pop the top (leaving it in place) and leave it in the cooler for a day and you have a day 2 cask ale... I quess about day 4 or 5 you might begin to notice a little twang developing but to each his own..

bosco

I recently came across this video: (I should also note that the video was created by fellow HBT member BeardedSquash)


That outlines the creation of a 'Beer Engine' that is used to serve real ale from club soda bottles. As long as you condition in the bottles, its as real a real ale as you can get.

I like your idea about cracking them and leaving them to develop day 2, 3, 4, etc flavors.

I was planning on building the engine already (for ~$10 in parts, why the hell not, right?) but that idea definitely adds another layer...

 

[boscobeans]

I recently came across this video: (I should also note that the video was created by fellow HBT member BeardedSquash)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWDgQqD38iA&feature=plcp

That outlines the creation of a 'Beer Engine' that is used to serve real ale from club soda bottles. As long as you condition in the bottles, its as real a real ale as you can get.

I like your idea about cracking them and leaving them to develop day 2, 3, 4, etc flavors.

I was planning on building the engine already (for ~$10 in parts, why the hell not, right?) but that idea definitely adds another layer...

Cool idea but for one thing. The build should have a flapper or spring valve that allows air to flow back into the bottle above the beer.

Real ales do get air into the kegs but it isn't bubbled up through the beer.

This is good as long as you finish the bottle. This would be like a day one cask ale but I think the maturing process that is normal on the following few days would be speeded up to a great degree by introducing air directly into the beer instead of gently mixing it in with the off gassing CO2 in the keg.

Just my observations.

bosco

 

[jhall4]

Cool idea but for one thing. The build should have a flapper or spring valve that allows air to flow back into the bottle above the beer.

Real ales do get air into the kegs but it isn't bubbled up through the beer.

This is good as long as you finish the bottle. This would be like a day one cask ale but I think the maturing process that is normal on the following few days would be speeded up to a great degree by introducing air directly into the beer instead of gently mixing it in with the off gassing CO2 in the keg.

Just my observations.

bosco

Agreed, if I were to do a multi-day experiment I would simply open a bottle to expose it to oxygen without pouring from it.

That said, I have been thinking about how this might be adapted to larger serving vessels that might last longer (I've already planned out an RV pump powered beer engine that will draw from naturally primed mini kegs) and I think the easiest solution is to make a finger powered valve in the lid that you can plug while pouring and then open to refill with air.

 

[boscobeans]

I think something along the lines of the pump linked here might be an option..
Polypropylene and self venting. I think it allows air in at the top and not bubbled through the liquid. Would still allow for the natural off gassed CO2 to stay in place.

8 ounces per stroke is about what an English beer machine pumps out.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0052PW6E6...&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&ref=asc_df_B0052PW6E6

bosco

 

[day_trippr]

One of the things about a real or cask ale is the fact that it will change over the life of the keg. Depending on taste it may be better after two or three days..[...]

Surely true, but in the OP's case, that "life" will be many months. There's precious little to support the concept of an oxygen-exposed brew actually tasting better at the end of three months...

Cheers!

 

[boscobeans]

Surely true, but in the OP's case, that "life" will be many months. There's precious little to support the concept of an oxygen-exposed brew actually tasting better at the end of three months...

Cheers!

Most cask ales are done for after 3-4 days once tapped, then back to the brewery.

A landlord or inn keeper gets to know his clientele and orders accordingly.

bosco

 

[day_trippr]

Most cask ales are done for after 3-4 days once tapped, then back to the brewery.[...]

Pretty sure everyone got that already, but that's not the OP's agenda...

Cheers!