Carbonation Inconsistency: Bottles

[ThickHead]

So far, bottle conditioning has proven to be my principle nemesis when it comes to acheiving what I would deem acceptable results at this stage in my homebrewing endeavors. I have been absolutely pleased with my results in every aspect with the exception of carbonation consistency.

I have, to date, bottle conditioned two similar batches of an American IPA. Both 5 gal batches yielded 31 and 32, 1 pint flip-top, bottles of delicious beer respectively (yes, dry-hopping absorbs a lot of beer). For each batch I primed with no less than 5 oz of dextrose (boiled to dissolve and sanitize and the beer racked ontop of it into the bottling bucket). The first batch I did not stir during priming and bottling, the second batch I did. The first batch conditioned for 4 weeks at between 70 and 80 F, the second for 6 weeks at the same tempurature. Both batches were fermented using White Labs California Ale yeasties. Both batches swere extracts and had a SG of around 1.055 and an FG of around 1.02 (I have trouble getting my extract batches much lower).

The results of both batches yielded, what I would deem, approximately 50% success rate in terms of ideal carbonation levels. I ended up with around 15 fantastic beers and 15 undercarbonated beers (although otherwise delicious). All the undercarbonated beers achieved some level of carbonation, just not enough.

This inconsistency is troubling to me at this point. I am currently at a loss to determine what the causative factor, or set of factors, might be. My current root cause analysis efforts have identified several potential factors. They are as follows:

• 
  Leaky bottle seals: After much inspection I do not believe the seals to be faulty, although I will concede that I did not seal them wet during bottling.

• 
  Poorly mixed priming solution: Although both batches produced similar results, the first not getting a stir during priming and the second getting a healthy stir.

• 
  Low amount of suspended yeast during racking to the bottling bucket: Unlikely but a possibility

• 
  Weak yeasties: Both batches did take at least 48 hours prior to producing much noticeable fermentation activity. Neither was fermented using a starter.

• 
  Insufficient conditioning time: This is what my gut is telling me even though each batch was conditioned at least 4 full weeks. It is possible that the strength of the yeast requires a much longer conditioning cycle.

I was hoping to perhaps get some feedback on thoughts y'all might have regarding my experience with inconsistent carbonation. Have I missed any possibilities? Has anyone had similar experience with the yeast that I used for this IPA?

 

[Revvy]

• 
  Leaky bottle seals: After much inspection I do not believe the seals to be faulty, although I will concede that I did not seal them wet during bottling.

That's my bet....The fact that it was slow to take off has no relevance to it's ability to carbonate. The time it takes for fermentation to start, or how vigorous a fermentation is, has little relevence to anything, fermentation is fermentation. All a slow fermentation means is that it took longer for the yeast to have sex and reproduce the amount of yeast necessary to do the job, but the fact they they did is all that matters.

I don't think it's conditioning time or temp...seems like you gave the bottles sufficient time at the right range of temps.

I never buy the "poorly mixed priming sugar theory anyone offers....it doesn't take much to integrate the sugar solution with the beer at racking time. If you put it in the bottom of the bucket and racked on top of it, it lifted and mixed the sugar as the bucket filled....it's pretty foolproof.

Ditto with insuffiecient yeast at bottling time....it really doesn't take much, and unless it's been a year in seondary or you cold crashed it then I'm pretty sure you have enough. One thing I do though is to run my racking cane across the bottom of the fermenter once or twice to kick up some yeast.

So that leaves only the seals, and many folks have had issue with the gasket on flip tops.....

You could try putting little ballons or condums over them and give them a shake to see if you get any inflation on the balloons to see....I would try to make sure they are really tight, agitate the bottles and give them maybe another week to trap some so2 in there.

Good luck.

 

[Pappers_]

You could try putting little ballons or condums over them ....

What if one doesn't have any "little" condoms? Only the extra large magnum versions?

 

[Revvy]

What if one doesn't have any "little" condoms? Only the extra large magnum versions?

Well I've had to resort to cutting the fingers off latex gloves...For the bottles I mean, because all I have here are Magnums myself.

 

[ThickHead]

That's my bet....The fact that it was slow to take off has no relevance to it's ability to carbonate. The time it takes for fermentation to start, or how vigorous a fermentation is, has little relevence to anything, fermentation is fermentation. All a slow fermentation means is that it took longer for the yeast to have sex and reproduce the amount of yeast necessary to do the job, but the fact they they did is all that matters.

I don't think it's conditioning time or temp...seems like you gave the bottles sufficient time at the right range of temps.

I never buy the "poorly mixed priming sugar theory anyone offers....it doesn't take much to integrate the sugar solution with the beer at racking time. If you put it in the bottom of the bucket and racked on top of it, it lifted and mixed the sugar as the bucket filled....it's pretty foolproof.

Ditto with insuffiecient yeast at bottling time....it really doesn't take much, and unless it's been a year in seondary or you cold crashed it then I'm pretty sure you have enough. One thing I do though is to run my racking cane across the bottom of the fermenter once or twice to kick up some yeast.

So that leaves only the seals, and many folks have had issue with the gasket on flip tops.....

You could try putting little ballons or condums over them and give them a shake to see if you get any inflation on the balloons to see....I would try to make sure they are really tight, agitate the bottles and give them maybe another week to trap some so2 in there.

Good luck.

Thanks for the feedback Revvy. I have an Oktoberfest that has been lagering now for about a month. I bought new 12 oz cap bottles to bottle this next batch having the same fear over the flip-top bottles. I plan to follow my same protocols as previously with the exception of replacing the bottles. I'll certainly give a follow-up on the results with the new bottles.

 

[Revvy]

Thanks for the feedback Revvy. I have an Oktoberfest that has been lagering now for about a month. I bought new 12 oz cap bottles to bottle this next batch having the same fear over the flip-top bottles. I plan to follow my same protocols as previously with the exception of replacing the bottles. I'll certainly give a follow-up on the results with the new bottles.

That's what I was thinking...Do EXACTLY how you normally bottle except use 12 ounce bottles with regular caps and see if your process is fine. Then you'll know if it's your bottles.

Like I said, I can't see anything wrong with your process. You're even waiting long enough, which is usually the mistake many brewers with this type of issue have.

But try doing the scrape the bottom of the fermenter upon your first part of racking to bring up more yeast. Another thing to do is rather than put ALL your priming solution in the bottom of the bucket, put half in, then when you get half the batch racked over pour the rest of the solution in. I also set my hose in the bottom of my bucket in sucjh a way that it follows the contours of it, so as the beer flows out of it into the bucket it starts a swirling motion, so as it fills up a bit of a vortex forms so that stirs the solution naturally (I hook mine into the gap in the bottling bucket dip tube I show in my bottling tip thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/revvys-tips-bottler-first-time-otherwise-94812/

 

[rico567]

I'm also betting on your flip-top seals. Your priming regimen sounds exactly like mine, and I have NO problems with completely uniform results.
I boil the 5 oz. of dextrose in 2 cups of water, then just dump it into the beer as it begins to rack into the bucket. The boiling priming solution will do no real harm in 5 gallons of beer, and the racking / bottling action is apparently quite sufficient to uniformly distribute the priming solution.

N.B.: I bottle largely in regular 12 oz. bottles, have about 25 16 oz. flip-tops.

 

[ThickHead]

Just to confirm...

It was definately the bottles. My Oktoberfest (latest batch) was bottled using 12 oz cap bottles. So far every single one has been perfect!

 

[millerkiller]

ok i have a similar problem but im bottling in all regular style 12 oz bottles. Theres some carbination but not enough to drink. they have been in bottle for 3 weeks. any ideas thanks

 

[rico567]

ok i have a similar problem but im bottling in all regular style 12 oz bottles. Theres some carbination but not enough to drink. they have been in bottle for 3 weeks. any ideas thanks

The first thing I would look at is the temperature at which your bottled beer is being conditioned. Generally, you should have the bottles at a temperature of >70F for the first few weeks. If the temperature is too low, it will inhibit carbonation.

I assume that you are using a nominal amount of dextrose (corn sugar), which would be about 5 oz in 5 gallons, and that it is thoroughly mixed. I boil my sugar in 2 cups of water and put the boiling mix into the bottling bucket as the beer is beginning to be racked. This, plus the bottling process, is sufficient to mix the sugar solution with the beer. And, no, 2 cups of boiling sugar solution won't have any effect on 5 gallons of beer.

I have made numerous styles of beer using this method, and I always get uniform and adequate carbonation.

 

[Token]

All a slow fermentation means is that it took longer for the yeast to have sex and reproduce the amount of yeast necessary to do the job, but the fact they they did is all that matters.

Man, oh, man!!

In another post someone likened fermentation to "yeast farts," and now I find out they are also having sex in my beer??? I think I've found the root of so many of the off flavors in my beers!!!!

Hmm, wait. For yeasties to do their job, they need to have sex and fart? In my next life, I want to come back as a yeastie.

 

[Revvy]

Man, oh, man!!

In another post someone likened fermentation to "yeast farts," and now I find out they are also having sex in my beer??? I think I've found the root of so many of the off flavors in my beers!!!!

Hmm, wait. For yeasties to do their job, they need to have sex and fart? In my next life, I want to come back as a yeastie.

Don't foget pee. They fart co2, but pee alcohol....

We're drinking yeast pee with farts thrown in for good measure.

So thinking about the vastness of the universe and all....ever wonder if we consume a micro-organism's pee and farts....what creature considers US a micro-organism and consumes our excretions.

 

[rico567]

Don't foget pee. They fart co2, but pee alcohol....

We're drinking yeast pee with farts thrown in for good measure.

So thinking about the vastness of the universe and all....ever wonder if we consume a micro-organism's pee and farts....what creature considers US a micro-organism and consumes our excretions.

Well.....if we count EVERYTHING, including excretions, then a whole host of scavengers, from buzzards to flesh-eating beetles to all manner of bacteria and molds. Covered in that famous poem "The worms crawl in, the worms crawl out...."

...and to paraphrase the immortal Homer Simpson, "Delicious, delicous pee."

 

[ThickHead]

Don't foget pee. They fart co2, but pee alcohol....

We're drinking yeast pee with farts thrown in for good measure.

So thinking about the vastness of the universe and all....ever wonder if we consume a micro-organism's pee and farts....what creature considers US a micro-organism and consumes our excretions.

We're all micro-organisms swimming in the same cosmic soup. It's only we humans that like to place ourselves on some pedestal, label and separate ourselves from everything else. Futile really....

 

[Token]

Oh dear. This thread has definitely taken a wrong turn!

 

[EvilGnome6]

Just to confirm...

It was definately the bottles. My Oktoberfest (latest batch) was bottled using 12 oz cap bottles. So far every single one has been perfect!

Thanks for confirming. I've noticed a lot of inconsistency in carbonation levels using my swing top bottles (plus about 10%-20% that fail to carb at all). A few months ago I started collecting 12 oz. bottles to transition over and I've got 3 batches done with a mix of the two bottles but haven't popped open any of the 12 ouncers yet. Hopefully I'll have the same results as you.

 

[ThickHead]

Thanks for confirming. I've noticed a lot of inconsistency in carbonation levels using my swing top bottles (plus about 10%-20% that fail to carb at all). A few months ago I started collecting 12 oz. bottles to transition over and I've got 3 batches done with a mix of the two bottles but haven't popped open any of the 12 ouncers yet. Hopefully I'll have the same results as you.

No problem. I hope you find your results are similar. I can't tell you how much of a relief it is to not worry about it when openning your next beer. For the first few batches bottled only with swing-tops I had to say a prayer to the beer Gods and hope for carbonation. I was denied 50% of the time. Now I crack every homebrew with a smile and not a care in the world as it relates to carbonation consistency.

But hey....if you're interested in more swing-top bottles I have about 40 1 pints if you're interested. I KID, I KID!

 

[FreakinA]

So far, bottle conditioning has proven to be my principle nemesis when it comes to acheiving what I would deem acceptable results at this stage in my homebrewing endeavors. I have been absolutely pleased with my results in every aspect with the exception of carbonation consistency.

I have, to date, bottle conditioned two similar batches of an American IPA. Both 5 gal batches yielded 31 and 32, 1 pint flip-top, bottles of delicious beer respectively (yes, dry-hopping absorbs a lot of beer). For each batch I primed with no less than 5 oz of dextrose (boiled to dissolve and sanitize and the beer racked ontop of it into the bottling bucket). The first batch I did not stir during priming and bottling, the second batch I did. The first batch conditioned for 4 weeks at between 70 and 80 F, the second for 6 weeks at the same tempurature. Both batches were fermented using White Labs California Ale yeasties. Both batches swere extracts and had a SG of around 1.055 and an FG of around 1.02 (I have trouble getting my extract batches much lower).

The results of both batches yielded, what I would deem, approximately 50% success rate in terms of ideal carbonation levels. I ended up with around 15 fantastic beers and 15 undercarbonated beers (although otherwise delicious). All the undercarbonated beers achieved some level of carbonation, just not enough.

This inconsistency is troubling to me at this point. I am currently at a loss to determine what the causative factor, or set of factors, might be. My current root cause analysis efforts have identified several potential factors. They are as follows:

• 
  Leaky bottle seals: After much inspection I do not believe the seals to be faulty, although I will concede that I did not seal them wet during bottling.

• 
  Poorly mixed priming solution: Although both batches produced similar results, the first not getting a stir during priming and the second getting a healthy stir.

• 
  Low amount of suspended yeast during racking to the bottling bucket: Unlikely but a possibility

• 
  Weak yeasties: Both batches did take at least 48 hours prior to producing much noticeable fermentation activity. Neither was fermented using a starter.

• 
  Insufficient conditioning time: This is what my gut is telling me even though each batch was conditioned at least 4 full weeks. It is possible that the strength of the yeast requires a much longer conditioning cycle.

I was hoping to perhaps get some feedback on thoughts y'all might have regarding my experience with inconsistent carbonation. Have I missed any possibilities? Has anyone had similar experience with the yeast that I used for this IPA?

I get the same problems as you, except I cap my bottles normally. Today is my IPAs fourth week birthday party, so we will making another taste of it. To date some bottles have been undercarbed, some gushers. Today if I get 2 carbed they all come out of storage! To test out the priming sugar myth in a purely unscientific way, the beer right behind it is an extract batch of similar gravity (1.058 to 1.060) and similar FG( 1.020 to 1.020!) both used US-05. The only difference is the second batch uses carbtabs for my first time ever.

 

[ThickHead]

I get the same problems as you, except I cap my bottles normally. Today is my IPAs fourth week birthday party, so we will making another taste of it. To date some bottles have been undercarbed, some gushers. Today if I get 2 carbed they all come out of storage! To test out the priming sugar myth in a purely unscientific way, the beer right behind it is an extract batch of similar gravity (1.058 to 1.060) and similar FG( 1.020 to 1.020!) both used US-05. The only difference is the second batch uses carbtabs for my first time ever.

With my latest batch, which was an extract Oktoberfest (SG 1.066, FG 1.020), I kicked up yeast from the bottom of the secondary by scraping the racking cane across the bottom, added half the priming solution before racking, racked half the beer and then added the rest of the priming solution ontop, racked the rest, and softly stirred everything once completely racked. Then I bottled....everything turned out perfectly.