carafa ii + roasted barley a reasonable substitute for black patent (porter clone)?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

huskeypm

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2012
Messages
46
Reaction score
2
Location
Del Mar
Hello,
The vendor I use for supplies was out of both black patent and carafa iii that I intended to use in a edmund fitzgerald porter clone. I purchased carafa ii, which of course is lighter and has a different flavor profile than iii. Would mixing in a small amount of roasted barley give a flavor profile closer to iii, or might it not make much of a difference in my recipe? This is the clone recipe I used (the recipe is halved for a 10 g BIAB setup):

21.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 86.00 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4.00 %
1.00 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 4.00 %
1.00 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 4.00 %
0.50 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 2.00 %
2.50 oz Centennial [8.80 %] (60 min) Hops 33.5 IBU
1.00 oz Williamette [5.40 %] (15 min) Hops 4.1 IBU
1.00 oz Williamette [3.80 %] (5 min) Hops 1.2 IBU
1 Pkgs Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) Yeast-Ale

Thanks
 

jdauria

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Messages
1,594
Reaction score
935
Location
Braintree
Probably be fine, black patent is just a brand name for black malt that Briess and Muntons, it's pretty much the same as Carafa III or just "black malt". So Carafa II and a little roasted barley should work. At 2% of grain bill, black patent was probably mostly for color and some roast notes, which you will still get from your substitutions. Brulosophy actually did a test, brewing one porter with roasted barley, one with black malt and only 10 out of 26 people could tell a difference and that was with a pound of each in 5 gallon batches. Roasted Grains: Roasted Barley vs. Black (Patent) Malt | exBEERiment Results!
 

VikeMan

It ain't all burritos and strippers, my friend.
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
4,684
Reaction score
4,092
I feel compelled to mention that there are two kinds of Carafa. There's plain Carafa and there's Carafa Special. The latter is dehusked and somewhat less roasty. All three Carafa colors (I, II, and III) are available in both plain and special.

Ironically, when a lot of people say Carafa, they really mean Carafa Special.
 
OP
OP
H

huskeypm

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2012
Messages
46
Reaction score
2
Location
Del Mar
Probably be fine, black patent is just a brand name for black malt that Briess and Muntons, it's pretty much the same as Carafa III or just "black malt". So Carafa II and a little roasted barley should work. At 2% of grain bill, black patent was probably mostly for color and some roast notes, which you will still get from your substitutions. Brulosophy actually did a test, brewing one porter with roasted barley, one with black malt and only 10 out of 26 people could tell a difference and that was with a pound of each in 5 gallon batches. Roasted Grains: Roasted Barley vs. Black (Patent) Malt | exBEERiment Results!
Great, thanks so much for the feedback. That's an interesting point about the Brulosophy test. I have about a pound of it sitting around and I was hesitant to throw it into porters as I was concerned it might be too bitter. Sounds like I probably won't notice so long as it's a small part of the bill.

Ironically, when a lot of people say Carafa, they really mean Carafa Special.

Thanks for the this too. Despite occasionally homebrewing for nearly ten years now, I'm still learning my way around the grain.
 

TheMadKing

Western Yankee Southerner and Brew Science Nerd
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
3,952
Reaction score
2,132
Location
Gainesville
I feel compelled to mention that there are two kinds of Carafa. There's plain Carafa and there's Carafa Special. The latter is dehusked and somewhat less roasty. All three Carafa colors (I, II, and III) are available in both plain and special.

Ironically, when a lot of people say Carafa, they really mean Carafa Special.

I was actually unaware of this, I thought Carafa was just a Weyerman brand of dehusked/debittered black malt. Thanks!
 
Top